PNC 5/9/12


 * Agenda PNC Meeting


 * 08/09/2012 18:00h PST
 * IRC: irc.pirateirc.net
 * Room: #pnc
 * Wiki: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/9/12

Attending

 * Jeff Talada, WA
 * Lindsay-Anne Brunner, NY
 * Bradley Hall, FL
 * Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 * Jarod, GA

excused

 * MrSquared (Oregon)

At Large Members of the PNC

 * Itspara, MD
 * OrionSteele,CA
 * Amanda, MI

Others
kaveros, Steve Herbert matuck, Mitch Tuck rath, Brittany Phelps

Proceedings

 * Meeting opened at 9:02pm EST by
 * Meeting closed at  10:55pm EST by
 * Meeting chaired by Travis McCrea
 * Secretary for this meeting is Jeffery Talada
 * Quorum is established. [4] Members out of [7] present
 * Logging Enabled: Yes

Review of previous minutes

 * https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-5-2-2012

Short report of the board members

 * Members of the PNC shall give a short summary of what happened since the last meeting or their last  report. If something needs more attention, it should be  discussed in separate points.

Washington

 * Looked at candidature options, found that the only position would be state legistature and felt we would lose
 * Exploring the possibility of a presidential nomination
 * Looking into running initiatives like a GMO labeling law

New York

 * Having international visitors
 * Is giving a talk at HOPE Number Nine
 * Planning a 'pirate choir'
 * Zacqary Green and Liz Brunner will be interviewing with Sebastian Lange of politik &amp; kommunikation

Florida

 * Is being awesome
 * Moffitt is going to make some purple logos
 * registered a Google Voice phone number
 * making some business cards (with three main planks)

Massachusetts

 * holding a film festival
 * candidate for US Rep hasn't heard back about his signatures, but has gotten some great press
 * working on a phone effort so we can call our supporters and remind them to come to upcoming events
 * drafting a ballot resolution to put on the 2012 ballot

IT Committee

 * The site is ready to go more or less
 * http://uspp2.matuck.com

Policy Committee

 * FEC was helpful and their documents are public domain
 * Our name will not cause legal issues

Question of the Week

 * How do we confirm state parties?
 * Moved discussion to part 6

PNC Membership

 * Massachusetts Proposes: any state must apply to the PNC for membership with one week's notice, and that a simple majority would certify a member. A two-thirds majority would be required to de-certify them, and would only be used in cases where they had violated the three core issues of the pirate party. (For example corporate copyright trolls taking over the leadership of a state party.)
 * Passed (5 for, at-large for)

The Website

 * Florida Proposes: The United States Pirate Party officially adopts http://uspp2.matuck.com/ to be the official site for the main US Pirate Party site. ((Note: This is just the site not the domain))
 * (6 for, at-large for)

AOB

 * Travis McCrea would like a list of contact emails for each state party, and phone numbers if available. If you have a phone number, also indicate if it should be included in the toll free number or not to allow people to call you directly.
 * When did Michigan become an at large member.


 * Next meeting: 5/16/12 9:00pm EST


 * Meeting closed: at 10:55pm EST by vote of 5 for

Log

 * <@teamcoltra> Okay it is 6:02PM - I will do an official roll call to see if we have quorum. Please state your name and state if you are a delegate for a state, please indicate at large if your are not a recognized state, and please indicate observer if you are just an observer.
 * >>> erixoltan has joined #pnc
 * <@kusanagi> kusanagi, Liz Brunner, NY delegate.
 *  Jeff Talada, WA
 * matuck, Mitch Tuck, observer
 * Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts delegate
 * Steve Herbert, observer
 * Itspara, MD At large?? (i think)
 * <@teamcoltra> Rush ping
 *  Bradley Hall, Florida, delegate dude
 *  I think you've mislabled the section
 * >>> mortona2k has joined #pnc
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so tonights agenda is located here: (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-5-9-2012)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-5-9-2012 I will give delegates a moment to add any additional items that they would like to discuss after 7 - please phrase your discussion topic as a motion, please.
 * >>> mortona2k has quit IRC: Read error: Connection reset by peer
 * >>> mortona2k has joined #pnc
 * <@teamcoltra> Does someone know the number required for quorum?
 * I'm here, kinda..off to play poker soon
 * <@kusanagi> simple majority?
 * <@teamcoltra> kusanagi what is the total number of official states?
 *  quorum is a number required for a valid vote
 * does that mean number of officers/delegates?
 *  states present
 * <@kusanagi> I'm not sure. not all reps have gotten to me.
 * <@kusanagi> I have the information for 4 reps.
 * <@kusanagi> including myself.
 * <@teamcoltra> I am going to declare quorum has been met, unless there is an objection?
 *  Do you have mine
 * Hmm this governing thing is actually pretty hard :(
 *  (Link: http://uspp2.matuck.com/states)http://uspp2.matuck.com/states
 * <@teamcoltra> It's on tonights agenda to get contact information and such so we can sort this stuff out
 * definitely agree, quorum clearly is met.
 *  7 states
 * <@kusanagi> teamcoltra, I have asked for everyone's information over the SAB list.
 * <@teamcoltra> Tonights meeting will be chaired by me, and the secretary will be Jeffery Talada ( QuazarGuy ) of Washington. Quorum has been met with 4 states out of 7 in attendance.
 * >>> kaveros has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so lets start with with reports from the states, this is a new thing so I will kinda introduce it: basically you give a recap of things you have done in the past week for your party (or that your party has done) - please keep it brief.
 * >>> kaveros has joined #pnc
 * <@teamcoltra> We will start with QuazarGuy
 * <@teamcoltra> for Washington
 *  alright
 *  this past week, WA met to determine the office I can run for and found that the only office I can run for is state legislature
 * >>> mortona42 has joined #pnc
 *  a candidate for which is a former mayor of a city which I live near
 *  so that's not going to happen
 * >>> Andrew- has joined #pnc
 *  we're looking at putting up a presidential candidate just to raise our funding limits for the next four years
 *  all we need is someone over 35 and 100 sigs at a convention
 *  1000*
 *  I think that's it
 * <Andrew-> Doable..
 * <QuazarGuy> 'tis
 * <QuazarGuy> oh we're also looking into starting some initiatives like GMO labelling
 * <QuazarGuy> will let you know how that turns out
 * <QuazarGuy> done
 * >>> mortona2k has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
 * <@teamcoltra> Awesome okay kusanagi is up next for Washington
 * lol
 * <@teamcoltra> err
 * <@teamcoltra> New York Sorry
 * <@kusanagi> pfft.
 * <@kusanagi> NY had a meeting on Sunday, and we're expecting the first of our international visitors tomorrow. (YAAAAY) I'm working on polishing the last bits of the hope talk, and that will be submitted to them hopefully tomorrow.  We're planning a "pirate choir" action, and that's in the planning stages right now and looks to be fun. Zacqary Green and I will be interviewing with Sebastian Lange of politik & kommunication at the end of the month.
 * >>> mortona42 has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
 * <@kusanagi> sorry, kommunikation
 * >>> mortona2k has joined #pnc
 * <@kusanagi> done.
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay thank you kusanagi - Brad Hall of Florida is up. Go ahead Rush
 * <Rush> In Florida we're working on being awesome, and we're succeeding. Moffitt is going to make some purple logos, I registered a Google Voice phone number, and I'm planning on making some business cards. Instead of listing my address on the cards, we're thinking of putting the three main planks on the card in that spot, space permitting.
 * <Rush> So we advertise the party AND tell people our main three platform goals. Boom.
 * <Rush> Done.
 * >>> Amanda has joined #pnc
 * And link to site, whenever that happens
 * >>> Andrew- has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
 * <@teamcoltra> Thank you Rush, that leaves us with Erik Zoltan of Mass Pirates - go ahead erixoltan
 * <Rush> oh yeah, of course
 * This week, MA discussed our upcoming events including our film festival which is this weekend.
 * Our candidate for US Rep hasn't heard back about his signatures, but has gotten some great press.
 * And we're working on a phone effort so we can call our supporters and remind them to come to upcoming events.
 * >>> Rath has joined #pnc
 * We're drafting a ballot resolution to put on the 2012 ballot.
 * That's it for Massachusetts.
 * <@teamcoltra> Thanks erixoltan
 * >>> itspara has quit IRC: Quit: Web client closed
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so I saw the question that we have up on the topic, and I want to kinda do what we did with our weekly recap. This time, however, if you have no position feel free to say pass.
 * <@teamcoltra> This will also not have debate, but if you want to make a motion for us to vote on later in the meeting, you can put it down.
 * <@teamcoltra> I would like to know, how dows your sate feel we should confirm new states to the PNC?
 * <@teamcoltra> we will start again with Jeff of Washington
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy
 * <QuazarGuy> ahh still taking notes
 * >>> itspara has joined #pnc
 * <@teamcoltra> we will come back to you
 * <@teamcoltra> if you prefer?
 * <@teamcoltra> Actually no, sorry I skipped ahead anyway
 * <Rush> what question
 * <@teamcoltra> line 78 Rush on the agendaa
 * <@teamcoltra> if you want to prep a statement :)
 * <@teamcoltra> We need to get reports, however, from the IT Committee and the Policy Committee
 * <@teamcoltra> matuck would you mind telling us what the IT committee has worked on?
 * <@teamcoltra> for the past week
 * <@teamcoltra> Also, while we are waiting on him - was there anyone here who was working on the legality of the PNC name who is here?
 * The IT committee has put the most effort into getting the new site ready. The is ready to go.   Plus or Minus any features the pnc feelds need to be changed.
 * <@kusanagi> i believe erixoltan had something about that.
 * <@teamcoltra> matuck would you like to link to the site? and also make sure to tell us when you are done :)
 * uspp2.matuck.com
 * done
 * >>> OrionSteele has joined #pnc
 * >>> Jarod has joined #pnc
 * >>> Jarod_ has joined #pnc
 * <@teamcoltra> Awesome, okay erixoltan were you in charge of the PNC naming thing? Would you like to report what you (and other people who were on the committee??) did for the last week in regards to the naming?
 * I phoned the FEC and spoke to someone very nice there.
 * He joked that all their documents are public domain so we don't need to pirate them lol.
 * He also assured me that the name Pirate National Committee would not be a problem when we go to apply for official recognition. They simply don't care what name we use, and they wouldn't take it into account as any sort of factor.
 * Therefore we arrived at the conclusion that the name "Pirate National committee" doesn't represent any legal problem. we don't need to change it.
 * <@kusanagi> awesome
 * <Rush> yay
 * Of course we could still vote to change it, they won't have a problem as long as we don't call it "Democratic National Committee."
 * <Rush> National Democratic Committee
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan, awesome - was there more?
 * That's pretty much it.
 * <@teamcoltra> Thanks for the report :)
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay we will go to Jeffery Talada of Washington ( QuazarGuy ) for the question (for the record for anyone following along we are now on line 86)
 * <@teamcoltra> The question is: How do we confirm state parties?
 * I had a motion to propose about that - do you want to have other discussion first?
 * <QuazarGuy> could we just discuss this as part of the next item?
 * <@teamcoltra> Oh I didn't notice the content of 6
 * <@teamcoltra> yeah let's do that
 * <@teamcoltra> If there is no objection we will just move on to line 90?
 * <@teamcoltra> Seeing no objection the Mass Pirates move the following:
 * <@teamcoltra> any state must apply to the PNC for membership with one week's notice, and that a simple majority would certify a member. A two-thirds majority would be required to de-certify them, and would only be used in cases where they had violated the three core issues of the pirate party.
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan you may speak on this first
 * <@teamcoltra> (though, in this period, after erixoltan has made his point -- I see no reason that we cannot have a free for all conversation, unless it gets out of hand)
 * I think my motion speaks for itself. I want to make sure we aren't stuck with a rogue party, but other than that I don't think we need to make it too hard.
 * <@teamcoltra> everyone feel free to jump at each others throats now (ding ding)
 * <@kusanagi> I have a question
 * <@kusanagi> Shouldn't the progress of the party be in question and evaluated?
 * <QuazarGuy> well it sounds like the same process as PPI
 * <@teamcoltra> I think that's why the motion is requiring a one week notification, so the members can review them.
 * Yeah but if you want to propose specific criteria that we'd use to evaluate them....?
 * <@kusanagi> I don't have anything in mind, honestly.
 * <Amanda> What do you mean by rogue group?
 * <@teamcoltra> Amanda, unless we suspend the rules of order you actually don't have a voice here.
 * <@teamcoltra> (a state would need to motion to suspend to let you speak on this topic)
 * <QuazarGuy> I thought you did Travis
 * For example if a bunch of copyright trolls were to create a "Pirate Party" and apply for membership, saying that copyright laws should actually be strengthened.
 * I would consider that a rogue party.
 * <QuazarGuy> this is difficult because we dont' know what membership means
 * <@teamcoltra> Can I just also make a point of clarification: This is simply to be accepted into the PNC, since we cannot actually declare a state "not a pirate party"
 * <QuazarGuy> right we can say it but that doesn't make it so
 * >>> mortona2k has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
 * I agree with that.
 * <@kusanagi> right.
 * <QuazarGuy> I think the terms are acceptable for determining a presidential candidate, but a lot to ask for when determining whether a group has access to resources like the website
 * I really think we should be very careful about denying anyone even PNC membership - we don't want to be like the Republicans on the question of who is a Pirate.
 * <QuazarGuy> but that is a tangent to another topic completely
 * <@kusanagi> well, it would be a small subsection of the site, not the whole thing, no?
 * <@teamcoltra> Again, if there are no objections - Can I open this up to our at-large members as well? that would include California ( OrionSteele ) and Michigan ( Amanda ) and Maryland (Itspara)
 * <@teamcoltra> Since this will affect them too?
 * <OrionSteele> yay
 * <QuazarGuy> sure
 * <Amanda> Can we start with when Michigan became and at large member?
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay seeing none, you guys may speak but please keep it to the motion at hand
 * <Amanda> Because Michigan was never informed of this
 * <@teamcoltra> Amanda, "motion at hand"
 * <Amanda> so if y'all pm me about when that happened i'd love it
 * <Amanda> Okay
 * <@teamcoltra> Thank you :)
 * <Amanda> If the purpose of the PNC is to increase collaboration between the states
 * <Amanda> why should we deny access to rogue groups?
 * <@kusanagi> because they're rogue groups that will damage the party as a whole.
 * We should only do that in extreme cases. If the MPAA decided to use its vast resources to create ten "Pirate Parties" in various states and take over the PNC and make it a pro-copyright organization, then we should have a way to keep them out.
 * <@teamcoltra> Even the big parties do this, for instance (interestingly enough) Michigan and Florida were removed from the Democratic National Committee
 * We should not (for example) use this to keep out a group that has some policies we disagree with, but which is a genuine pirate party and supports the 3 core issues.
 * They would damage the image and use up resources..... Plus open up room for infiltration.
 * I'm not sure I'd use the big parties as an example of best behavior we should copy.
 * <@teamcoltra> There are certain things we /can/ learn from them. We cannot reject all examples from the big two and say "that's wrong because it's by them"
 * And from what i understand, this is to filter out people that dont agree with the core issues
 * good point
 * <Amanda> Well how would they take over the PNC? What could they possibly do using the PNC if all the power is at the state level?
 * <Amanda> That is what I do not understand
 * If the MPAA created ten rogue pirate parties and they got into the PNC, they could vote in their own leadership and kick out the real ones. They could say that copyright and patent laws should be strengthened, and privacy is actually a bad thing.
 * <@teamcoltra> Picking a presidential nominee (if we get to that point) still comes from a combined effort of each state. Also each state still has a vote in the direction that we carry the party forward in. They could vote to move the power back to the PNC and advance agendas that are not in line with the Pirate Ideology.
 * <Amanda> Erixoltan very true
 * <@teamcoltra> (when we get to that point, sorry)
 * <Amanda> Okay so then that is why we need it
 * <@teamcoltra> May I ask if there is anyone who disagrees with the motion?
 * <Amanda> What exactly is the motion?
 * <Amanda> That we need to evaluate potential members to the PNC?
 * <@teamcoltra> any state must apply to the PNC for membership with one week's notice, and that a simple majority would certify a member. A two-thirds majority would be required to de-certify them, and would only be used in cases where they had violated the three core issues of the pirate party.
 * <OrionSteele> seems reasonable
 * <QuazarGuy> I motion to vote on it
 * <@teamcoltra> um
 * <Amanda> I'm cool with it
 * <@teamcoltra> Can I make a friendly amendment
 * sure
 * <@teamcoltra> Any state must apply to the PNC for membership with one week's notice, and a simple majority vote by full members of the PNC would certify a member. A two-thirds majority would be required to de-certify them, and would only be used in cases where they had violated the three core issues of the pirate party.
 * <@teamcoltra> I removed "that" from the "and that a simple majority" and added that the majority vote is by current full members of the PNC
 * clarification. When we say a majority, does it mean a majority of all states, or a majority of states voting?
 * <@teamcoltra> It was your motion that you wrote
 * <@teamcoltra> :P what did you mean by it? and maybe you can add that to the text?
 * yeah, it's more a point of order so I address it to the chair.
 * I think it's the same as when we vote on anything - do we need a majority of votes or a majority of states?
 * I assume a majority of votes.
 * <@teamcoltra> Oh it's the majority of those who are here
 * <@teamcoltra> Yeah
 * ok then no problem, I'd like to accept it as a friendly amendment.
 * <@teamcoltra> Do you want to make it a majority of states total?
 * no
 * certainly not.
 * <@teamcoltra> kk
 * <@teamcoltra> Then in that case, I will end discussion and we will vote on the motion:
 * <@teamcoltra> Any state must apply to the PNC for membership with one week's notice, and a simple majority vote by full members of the PNC would certify a member. A two-thirds majority would be required to de-certify them, and would only be used in cases where they had violated the three core issues of the pirate party.
 * <@teamcoltra> All in favour please say aye
 * arrrrr
 * <@teamcoltra> (if you are not in favour say "no or nay"
 * Aye
 * <@kusanagi> aye
 * <Jarod_> aye
 * I hope 'arr' was understood as the piratical equivalent of 'aye'
 * <@kusanagi> lol
 * <QuazarGuy> aye
 * <OrionSteele> yarrr
 * <@teamcoltra> Amanada, you do get an at-large vote
 * <Amanda> oh then, aye
 * <@teamcoltra> Rush ping?
 * <Rush> ping
 * <Rush> what
 * <Rush> aye
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay QuazarGuy has to make the officially tally, but it looks like the Ayes have it with 5 ayes from states and the at large going to aye as well making it 6 0 0
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy is that correct?
 * <QuazarGuy> yeah 6 for
 * <@teamcoltra> Awesome, okay moving on to the next item of business then.
 * <@teamcoltra> On line 97 for those following along
 * <@teamcoltra> The Florida Pirate Party moves:
 * <@teamcoltra> The United States Pirate Party officially adopts (Link: http://uspp2.matuck.com/)http://uspp2.matuck.com/ to be the official site for the main US Pirate Party site.
 * <@teamcoltra> This would just be the site, the website would remain at pirate-party.us (and us.pirate.is)
 * <@teamcoltra> Rush this was your motion, would you like to speak on this first?
 * <Rush> I'll cede this one to Matuck
 * <@teamcoltra> Actually can a state motion to allow matuck to speak on this topic in general?
 * move that the chair recognize matuck
 * <Rush> It's his site
 * <@teamcoltra> Objections?
 * <Rush> Paging matuck
 * <@teamcoltra> okay well matuck you may speak
 * The main thing that should be voted on is the layout... the features themselves  can be turned off easily if the pnc desires to change a feature
 * or to not have a feature. also if someone thinks a feature is not ready or should be removed for time being should probably make a motion to do so
 * done
 * >>> kaveros has quit IRC: Quit: Leaving
 * <OrionSteele> I only say yes if there is a commitment to keep it regularly updated. for instance, there are some spelling errors and stuff that needs to be changed...the link to the California party needs to be changed to our new site, etc.
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay - we will have this as an open debate period amongst delegates. If it is needed we will open the floor to at large members
 * I support this motion - we need to make a commitment to the new site so that we can move forward. It's not perfect yet, but supporting it will help to push it in the right direction.
 * This is already an improvement and I suspect it will only accelerate if we approve it.
 * <Jarod_> I really like the website so far!
 * <Rush> As far as I'm concerned this is a proof of concept, spelling errors and site linkage problems will be fixed, but I really like the layout
 * <OrionSteele> i agree, it does look nice
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy I understand you have some concerns?
 * <QuazarGuy> mostly little things and some features that we aren't ready for
 * <QuazarGuy> like news and possibly forums
 * <QuazarGuy> we should wait for people to demand them
 * <Rush> Like matuck said, those can be gotten rid of and easily brought back in
 * <@kusanagi> matuck, it looks awesome
 * <Rush> What's wrong with news?
 * I'm excited about forums.
 * <@kusanagi> first off, thank you for your hard work.
 * <QuazarGuy> yeah great job
 * <Rush> If not party news, then news members would like? Like what I do with the Facebook
 * <QuazarGuy> my issue with the news is whether it will be upkept
 * <QuazarGuy> we don't have a dedicated team for press yet
 * We need committee volunteers --- badly.
 * <MrSquared> I think this is a good start for the site, I think the only issues I have with it are the "spacings" for different elements (such as the header) but I am sure they will be tweaked.
 * <QuazarGuy> I think we can make an effort to go over the site with matuck during the week
 * <QuazarGuy> to tweak it to our liking
 * <Amanda> Am I allowed to speak yet?
 * definately.. any tweaks you gut send them my way... i welcome all feedback
 * <QuazarGuy> anyone know when Germany's voting will be over?
 * <Rush> QuazarGuy that sentence sounds like it had maniacal laughter in the end of it
 * <Rush> (the one about tweaking the site to your liking)
 * >>> Brady has joined #pnc
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy so is it your counter proposal to table this until next week?
 * <QuazarGuy> we should get this up before the end of Germany's elections
 * <MrSquared> matuck, if you need any graphical help, don't hesitate to send me an email
 * <@teamcoltra> I think Germany's elections are over, but I could be mistaken. Rush is our German
 * <QuazarGuy> I think Westrhinefalia still has a election to go
 * I'd like to move that we vote on the motion?
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan one second, I just want to clearify QuazarGuy's position
 * k
 * <QuazarGuy> we can vote
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay :)
 * <Rush> Wha-wha-what???
 * <Rush> I'm not German
 * <@teamcoltra> Oh sorry
 * <QuazarGuy> rush do you know when Germany's elections finish
 * <Rush> When they get done
 * <Rush> Kesler is "our" German
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so we are now voting on the motion presented by Florida:
 * <@teamcoltra> The United States Pirate Party officially adopts (Link: http://uspp2.matuck.com/)http://uspp2.matuck.com/ to be the official site for the main US Pirate Party site.
 * <Rush> Aye
 * <@teamcoltra> If you are in favour of it, please vote aye - if you are against it, nay or no
 * aye
 * <MrSquared> aye
 * <QuazarGuy> aye
 * <@kusanagi> aye
 * Aye
 * <@teamcoltra> OrionSteele, Amanda just a reminder you guys do have votes in all motions
 * <Amanda> What is the point of voting if you can't comment -_-
 * <Amanda> Aye though because the site is lovely
 * <Jarod_> aye
 * <Rush> 8 aye so far
 * <@teamcoltra> I count 7 >.> and 2 of those are actually at large votes so they combine
 * <@teamcoltra> Oh you are right 8
 * <OrionSteele> yar
 * Sorry, I got impatient and called the question before teamcoltra gave other states a chance to talk.
 * <@kusanagi> getting toby to bed, afk.
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so QuazarGuy will call the vote in favour of the ayes, QuazarGuy can give a final total officially
 * <QuazarGuy> 7 for
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay - so now is "Any Other Business" so this is really a free time for us, but please if you have somthing you want to bring up
 * <@teamcoltra> put it on the pad and we will discuss them in order
 * <@teamcoltra> any person, observer, at large, or full member can add something to the AOB section -- but if a majority would like to skip a topic it is within their ability.
 * <@teamcoltra> Also everyone is free to talk at this point, but lets start with mine
 * There's already an item in there - about contact emails - and I have a question about it.
 * <@teamcoltra> Yep that's mine :P really it's just a statement, no need to have a big discussion about it
 * Where can I go to add my info or verify that it's up to date? Is there a document or do I just email the info?
 * <@teamcoltra> please everyone send me contact information to travis.mccrea@pp-international.net
 * <@teamcoltra> Also if you have a state phone number that you don't mind people contacting you on, give me that and I will add it to the USPP toll free number
 * <Amanda> Would it be better to have a document?
 * <MrSquared> I'll need to figure out who in my state would be the contact and I will send you the information
 * <@teamcoltra> I will put together a document, but for now if they can be sent privately - that way people can also send me their private phone numbers which will make it easier for me to contact them
 * email is ok, could be more private
 * <@teamcoltra> :) If you don't want your number to be reachable, but don't mind me calling you to help you or get information or whatever, please include it :)
 * <Amanda> I'll talk to kschap about who is going to be the official contact (I already responded to Kusanagi with my info but i'll double check with kschap to make sure)
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay that's about it for my announcement
 * <@teamcoltra> oh btw sorry before we go forward
 * <@teamcoltra> do you guys know we have an 800 number?
 * <QuazarGuy> that should go on the site?
 * <@teamcoltra> It will
 * <@teamcoltra> 1(888)3587259 is the number
 * <@teamcoltra> if you call it, you can type in the first few letters of your state name and it will direct your call to your state
 * <@kusi> Hai guize.
 * <Rush> I'm heading out, I'm done
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay - so next business
 * <@teamcoltra> Michigan is concerned about their status within the PNC
 * <@teamcoltra> When did Michigan become an at large member? Is the actual question, posted by Amanad
 * <@teamcoltra> Amanda*
 * <Amanda> Yes
 * <Amanda> I cannot find logs, or the documents about our meetings when forming the PNC
 * More broadly, was there an official action in the past that recognized certain states as PNC members? If so, which states were so recognized?
 * <Amanda> things are being shifted on the wiki, so the actual document we worked on was no there
 * <QuazarGuy> I don't remember deciding members and at-large
 * <Amanda> To my memory
 * <Amanda> I do
 * <Amanda> I remember the threshold being 2 members in a state party
 * <@kusi> I believe it's mostly because there isn't an actual MIPP, but no, there wasn't any deciding thing.
 * <Amanda> well in a state and the at large group
 * <Jarod_> I just sent you the email w/ my contact info, going mobile if yall still need me
 * >>> Jarod_ has quit IRC: Quit: Web client closed
 * <@kusi> When was the threshold announced?
 * <Amanda> There needed to be 2 people in the state and we were going to close it to new members until the constitution is done
 * <Amanda> It was done informally in the committee that created the PNC
 * I wonder how many active members are in each of the currently-recognized PNC members?
 * <Amanda> the pnc was created just by people talking
 * <Amanda> The only state not on the approved list that I remember was michigan
 * <@kusi> erixoltan: we have 6.
 * <Amanda> one second i am going to try something
 * >>> bandu has quit IRC: Read error: Connection reset by peer
 * >>> matuck has quit IRC: Read error: Connection reset by peer
 * <Amanda> found it
 * <Amanda> (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/12)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/12
 * <Amanda> this is one of the early ones
 * <Amanda> where the thresh hold was 3
 * <Amanda> I remember discussing *bickering
 * <Amanda> about that
 * >>> matuck has joined #pnc
 * <Amanda> "Those state organizations expected to be eligible for a seat as of the adoption of this proposal are as follows: Florida Georgia Massachusetts Michigan New York Oklahoma Oregon Washington  Plus 1 At-Large representative to represent all other US pirates not represented above.  State organizations may decline a seat. These seats are not permanent and will be subject to those guidelines designated in the official constitution (See below).  /*"
 * <@kusi> Expected.
 * <Amanda> (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/14)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/14
 * <Amanda> in this agenda
 * <Amanda> (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/17)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/17
 * <Amanda> quazar guy is the only at large member
 * <@kusi> Again, there's that word, expected.
 * <Amanda> well ?
 * >>> bandu has joined #pnc
 * <Amanda> it didn't give the right link
 * <Amanda> (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/17)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/17
 * It looks like Brady was the editor of the section in question - Brady are you there? is that right and can you comment on this?
 * <QuazarGuy> when was I at-large?
 * <@teamcoltra> you are not QuazarGuy
 * <Brady> Hmm
 * <@teamcoltra> you are a full member
 * <Brady> erixoltan - This was indeed correct.
 * <Brady> It IS, actually.
 * <QuazarGuy> I didn't take part in the meeting Amanda put up
 * <@teamcoltra> That document says "expected" and I don't feel that Georgia or Michigan actually meets the criteria
 * <@teamcoltra> It's not my call though
 * <Brady> Michigan was recognized for a seat due to Amanda's activity.
 * How many at large members are in Georgia and Michigan?
 * <Brady> It was assumed a state party was forming at that time.
 * <Amanda> 2 in michigan
 * Sorry, I meant *active* members
 * <Amanda> and I believe 2 in Georgia
 * <Brady> 3+ in Georgia
 * <Brady> 3+ in Michigan.
 * <Amanda> We only have 2 that attend IRC
 * <@kusi> There was 3 in GA
 * <Amanda> and 2-3 others that are interested, but haven't attended meetings
 * <@kusi> Amanda: is there any meetings of MIPP?
 * <Amanda> so I don't count them
 * <Amanda> Kusi Yup, we had a time and MIPP before my guy disappeared
 * <Amanda> and now he is back and we are setting meetings up again
 * <Amanda> It will likely be wednesday's at 7 est like last time
 * >>> Rush has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
 * <@teamcoltra> I know Rush left - but I do feel that this needs to be resolved by tonight - QuazarGuy do we still have Quorum in your mind?
 * In Massachusetts we have 20 people registered officially as Pirates and perhaps 40 who may have attended our conference. But at the last IRC chat we only had 4. I wouldn't want to go by the number on IRC.
 * <Amanda> We're not very organized right now
 * <Amanda> So we have two hardcore people
 * <QuazarGuy> just a minute Travis
 * <Amanda> and a few other 'interested' people, that we are going to try to organize
 * <@kusi> Shouldn't there be some organization for pnc member states?
 * <@teamcoltra> Every other state who we have as "full members" are actually active pirate parties (except OK but I believe they are left as full for legacy reasons)
 * <QuazarGuy> yeah we still have four here
 * We don't have any specific criteria that we would use to determine how many people there are in a member state.
 * Or other specific criteria to make the distinction.
 * <Amanda> this is the most direct mention of members in any proposal
 * <Amanda> 4. The PNC will be formed of a single member from each state party already in existence and  one 'at large' member representing states that do not yet have a party. State parties that form after this date can observe and comment, but will continue to be represented by the at-large member.
 * <Amanda> (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/11)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/11
 * I believe we have amended that today.
 * <Amanda> I do not believe we ever defined state party as official state party
 * <@teamcoltra> but it's do the members recognize your state party as being "in exsistance" or just being a couple of people planning a party
 * <Amanda> Are we going to define it that way now?
 * <Amanda> Because I do not remember defining it at all
 * Right now it's a majority of votes to approve and two-thirds to disapprove. The question is do we need a majority to approve Michigan or two-thirds to deactivate them?
 * In fact we've agreed to language that we'd disapprove based on the three planks - I don't think this would qualify even then.
 * <Amanda> Alright
 * <Amanda> How about this
 * <@teamcoltra> We have not had them as a recognized party -- and no one has objected (except them), we counted their votes as an at-large party and no one objected
 * <@kusanagi> Save Amanda
 * <@teamcoltra> (except her yeah)
 * <Amanda> You forget
 * <Amanda> this is my first meeting back since I left in a huff
 * <Amanda> Before then I was running the meetings
 * <Amanda> and Michigan was considered a member
 * <Amanda> and was voting
 * <@kusanagi> yes, because I dropped the ball on that, for which i apologize.
 * <Amanda> This counting of their votes
 * <Amanda> has happened for 2 weeks
 * I would like to move that we table this issue for consideration at our next meeting, and that we come back with one or more specific motions related to this matter.
 * <Amanda> Okay how about this as a motion
 * <Amanda> It will be to vote Michigan into existence
 * <@kusanagi> existance?
 * <@kusanagi> no
 * <Amanda> or leave them as you have all assumed, at large
 * <@kusanagi> you mean full membership?
 * <Amanda> yes
 * <Amanda> or a party?
 * <Amanda> Is there a difference?
 * <@kusanagi> yes
 * <Amanda> When it comes to the PNC?
 * <@teamcoltra> Yes, you should already be a party
 * <@teamcoltra> to apply for full membership to the PNC
 * <@teamcoltra> but I am open to it if there are no objections to holding a vote to see whose in favour of Michigan being a member of the PNC
 * <@kusanagi> vote next week, i assume?
 * <@teamcoltra> It does technically, however, break the rule today -- but I hope we can suspend this rule for clarification sake
 * <@kusanagi> oh
 * <@teamcoltra> that's up to you guys if we vote now, or next week
 * <Amanda> I'm indifferent and not allowed to vote on the matter of a vote, I believe :P
 * <@teamcoltra> Or we can adjourn, whatever we do, we need a motion from a state
 * <@teamcoltra> I can't make the motion :P
 * I really feel that a week would improve matters.
 * <@kusanagi> I agree
 * My primary goal here is to grow the party.
 * <@kusanagi> motion to adjourn.
 * I'm not sure a vote right now would serve that purpose.
 * <@teamcoltra> There has been a motion to adjourn, all in favour?
 * aye
 * <@kusanagi> aye
 * <QuazarGuy> aye
 * <Amanda> night all
 * <@teamcoltra> :P I will call that good enough, unless the other 4 come in real fast and all vote no :P