PNC 6/13/12


 * Agenda PNC MEETING
 * 06/13/12 18:00h PST
 * IRC: irc.pirateirc.net
 * Room: #pnc
 * Wiki: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_6/13/12

participating

 * Bradley Hall, Florida
 * Lindsay-Anne Brunner, NY
 * Brady O'bannon Dibble, Washington
 * Jarod, GA
 * Kyle DeVore, Oregon
 * Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 * Orion Steele, California

unexcused

 * Oklahoma

At Large Members of the PNC

 * Itspara maryland
 * Sacha, MI

Proceedings

 * Meeting opened at : pm EST by Travis McCrea
 * Meeting closed at : 12:10am EST by
 * Meeting chaired by Travis McCrea
 * Secretary for this meeting is QuazarGuy
 * Quorum is established. [6] Members out of [7] present
 * Logging Enabled: Yes

Review of previous minutes

 * http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/06/12

Massachusetts

 * participated in the Boston Pride Parade last weekend
 * all dressed up as pirates and handed out fliers as we marched and chanted slogans
 * completely underestimated the level of interest there would be
 * ran out of fliers one third of the way through the parade
 * learned a lot and have many ideas about how to improve our process next time
 * going to have a hackathon soon to put up liquid feedback on our site
 * drafting the language of a ballot proposal

Oklahoma

 * n/a

Washington

 * nothing to report

Oregon

 * nothing to report

Georgia

 * nothing to report

Florida

 * nothing to report

New York

 * Zac interviewed with huffpost
 * making some phone calls to the board of elections to actually be registered
 * Pirate choir will be rehearsing on 23rd
 * Lindsay has been named administrative officer
 * Zac is now Operations and will be the new NY rep, with Lindsay as backup

IT Committee

 * Didn't report

California Seeks Entry Into PNC

 * Massachusetts moves to admit California into the PNC.
 * Motion to allow Orion to speak on behalf of CA
 * 4 for, at-large (1) for
 * Reasons for membership provided by Orion
 * we believe in the ideals of the pirate party, and we are committed to defending pirate party ideology
 * believe that we can contribute to a successful national movement and provide resources/information/support to other states
 * we believe that our members have a unique opportunity to lobby on behalf of pirates in Hollywood
 * founded on May 1, 2012
 * Since that time we have formally organized with the secretary of state and IRS
 * started a voter registration drive to become a registered party in our state
 * launched a website, facebook, twitter and google accounts, and in the short time we have been in business we have recruited over 50 pirates
 * Our plan is to conduct live public debates about pirate related issues, to hold pirate rallies and concerts, as well as do everything we can to promote public intellectualism
 * our group of pirate party administrators are smart, committed individuals
 * Orion would be PNC rep for CA and their president, Jake Ziering, will be secondary
 * 5 for, 1 abstain, at-large (1) for

Progress on Temporary PNC Objectives

 * Motion to allow Sacha a comment
 * 4 for
 * Comment:
 * Last week this was discussed so late that no clear plan was agreed upon before adjourning for the night. Simply "confirm by sunday" on Saturday I sent out an email to the board requesting further instruction and recieved nothing back. I think we should keep that in mind before ruling on whether or not we cut out the people that were not confirmed last meeting.
 * Washington motions to vote now on a single chair for the Constitution Committee to act primarily as a representative to the PNC from the following: Brad, Brady, Zac
 * 4 for, at-large (.5) for
 * Vote for the representative


 * Key | First Round | Second Round
 * F8kg3l | Zac Brady Rush | Zac 2 Brady 1
 * D93kjs | Brady Zac Brad | Zac 1 Brady 2
 * K34sof | Zac Brady Brad | Zac 2 Brady 1
 * C3ksdl | Brady Zac Brad | Zac 1 Brady 2
 * Hisk3lf | Zac Brad Brady | Zac 2 Brady 0
 * Kisff3n | Brady Brad Zac | Zac 1 Brady 2


 * Results:
 * Zac 14
 * Brady 14
 * Brad 8


 * Final Round Results:
 * Zac 9
 * Brady 8


 * http://pirate-party.us/news/article/temporary-pirate-national-committee
 * https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aLMIpfAPMqIMRET12kNayo0j5kBFNyQOkT-9v0IGwYY/edit?pli=1

VPN
Any states that would like to provide VPN service to their members:
 * Rates would be $10 p/mo $35 p/6mo $60 p/yr
 * Your state would make $5 $15 $30 respectively (not per signup, but per mo/6/yr)
 * This is the same system being adopted by PPI for member countries, so it's pretty awesome. It's a great way for your state to make money to be used for advertising and party funds. Here is the order page http://acceptculture.org/ to get a feel for it. (ignore the current prices, they are just place holders)

AOB

 * Motion to adjourn
 * 4 for, at-large for

Next meeting: 6/20/12 at 9:00pm EST

Meeting closed: at 12:10 am EST

Logs
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 * so I am going to call this meeting to order with Quazar as our secretary. Can I please get a roll call of your name and state please. (ping Brady CalebLangeslag coyo erixoltan Ganrao itspara jarod_ kusanagi matuck MrSquared OrionSteele QuazarGuy Rush teamcoltra )
 * The time is 6:19
 * PST
 *  Bradley Hall, Florida, Delegate
 * Lindsay-Anne Runner, NY rep
 * Brunner.
 * Itspara maryland
 *  Brady O'bannon Dibble, Washington state
 *  Jeff Talada, Secretary
 *  Kyle DeVore, Oregon
 *  Orion Steele, California
 * At large
 * Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 *  Jarod georgia
 * I can't make mandates, but a state might want to make the motion or it become accepted decorum at some point that as we are a political party, that state representatives use their real name vs a screen name when representing their state
 * Tonights agenda is (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-6-13-12)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-6-13-12
 * Can we all review the minutes of last week and agree to the results (Link: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/06/12)http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/06/12
 * err
 *  There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs.
 * (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-6-6-12)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-6-6-12
 * (Link: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_6/06/12)http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_6/06/12
 * Once you have read and agree to the minutes of last week please say so, so I know we can move on
 * the minutes look good to me.
 *  agreed
 * Okay since they were pretty short I am going to assume we all agree on them, if anyone sees something worrysome you can bring up an objection late.
 * later*
 * Lets start with reports - erixoltan mass is up first
 * Massachusetts participated in the Boston Pride Parade last weekend.
 * We all dressed up as pirates and handed out fliers as we marched and chanted slogans.
 * We completely underestimated the level of interest there would be.
 * As a result we ran out of fliers one third of the way through the parade.
 * We then got pretty hoarse shouting slogans the rest of the way.
 * <@kusanagi> Yay
 * We learned a lot and have many ideas about how to improve our process next time.
 * We are also going to have a hackathon soon to put up liquid feedback on our site.
 * We are drafting the language of a ballot proposal now - that has floated up to the top of the list now that the parade is over.
 * That's it for Massachusetts.
 * Awesome, thank you
 * Oklahoma - D-USA who isn't here. Washingtons report will be given by Brady who is new to being a delegate (from what I understand) as he is filling in for QuazarGuy today.
 * Go ahead
 *  We have nothing to report at this time.
 *  We cede our time.
 * okay... MrSquared from Oregon, you are up next :)
 *  What up?
 *  Oregon, doesn't have anything new to report either, we are just trying to get our bearings still.
 *  cede
 * Not a problem. Slow week for a couple of our parties, it happens. Georgia with jarod_ is up next
 *  nothing to report in GA
 *  cede as well
 * Florida I am sure is just booming with activity, what's going on in Florida Rush?
 *  Nothing actually.
 * <Rush> That's about it.
 * Finally we have kusanagi from PPNY who is going to blow us away with amazing stories from PPNY
 * <@kusanagi> For New York, Zac interviewed with huffpo on my behalf, he was feeling great about it. We're making some phone calls to the board of elections to actually be registered. Pirate choir will be rehearsing on 23rd.I've been named administrative officer, Zac is now Operations and will be the new NY rep, with me as backup. That's pretty much all I can remember.
 * <@kusanagi> And FFS
 * <@kusanagi> NYPP.
 * @kusanagi slaps teamcoltra with a trout.
 * <@kusanagi> :D
 * lmao
 * :) is that all?
 * kusanagi?
 * <@kusanagi> lol
 * <@kusanagi> Nothing but *<3
 * matuck
 * <@kusanagi> Yes, it is
 * What's going on in the IT department
 * btw it was matuck's birthday yesterday (hint)
 * <Sacha> Happy late birthday Matuck!!
 * <@kusanagi> Awwwww
 * @kusanagi gets the cake
 * yay happy birthday
 * <@kusanagi> HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOOOO YOOOOOOU
 * <Brady> Happy Birthday, matuck!
 * <MrSquared> Happy Birthday!
 * but he doesn't seem to be around so we are moving on :)
 * <QuazarGuy> think he's afk
 * I have taken the liberty of moving a new agenda point to item 1 so that if it passes California can take part in the rest of the conversation
 * erixoltan would you like to state your motion for us?
 * I would like to move that California be admitted to the PNC.
 * <OrionSteele> :)
 * Would someone like to move to allow OrionSteele to take part in the debate?
 * <Brady> I move to allow OrionSteele to take part in the debate on behalf of California.
 * second
 * all in favour?
 * aye
 * <Sacha> yay
 * <Brady> Aye
 * <MrSquared> aye
 * Aye
 * <Rush> Aye
 * And I will call the vote.
 * <QuazarGuy> 5 for
 * <OrionSteele> yay thank you!
 * <Rush> No Orion, thank you.
 * Okay so maybe OrionSteele you can walk us through why you feel your state should be a member
 * <OrionSteele> sure
 * what you have achieved, what you are doing to drive more membership, etc
 * <Sacha> don't forget all the criteria* (i'll be quiet now tho)
 * <OrionSteele> we think the california pirate party should be a member of the PNC for a number of reasons
 * <OrionSteele> First, we believe in the ideals of the pirate party, and we are committed to defending pirate party ideology. We believe that we can contribute to a successful national movement and provide resources/information/support to other states
 * <OrionSteele> Second, we believe that our members have a unique opportunity to lobby on behalf of pirates in Hollywood. Since so much content is produced in our state, it is paramount that the pirate party have a presence in California. It will allow us to be on the front steps of the bastard's mansions
 * <OrionSteele> Specifically about us:
 * <OrionSteele> the california pirate party founded on May 1, 2012. Since that time we have formally organized with the secretary of state and IRS. we have started a voter registration drive to become a registered party in our state.
 * <OrionSteele> we launched a website, facebook, twitter and google accounts, and in the short time we have been in business we have recruited over 50 pirates
 * <OrionSteele> Our plan is to conduct live public debates about pirate related issues, to hold pirate rallies and concerts, as well as do everything we can to promote public intellectualism
 * <OrionSteele> our group of pirate party administrators are smart, committed individuals with sophisticated world views and each of them has something amazing to bring to the table
 * <OrionSteele> there is much more, I could talk about this for hours, but that is a taste of some of the stuff we have done in one month
 * I have a question. Do you have a PNC rep and alternate in mind?
 * <OrionSteele> yes, i will be the PNC rep, and our president, Jake Ziering will be our alternate
 * Other questions?
 * <Brady> I also have a question - Have you documented the steps you took thus far, and can you quantify this in such a way that it may be repeated elsewhere?
 * <OrionSteele> um, we do keep a timeline of pirate party activities at our facebook page, and I am keeping all of our documentation in chronological order. I am happy to place a "history" section on our website with an enumeration of the steps we have taken
 * I would also ask that questions be kept to deciding factors about brining PPCA into the PNC. As we can ask them questions about tips/tricks/support at any time.
 * <Brady> More along the lines of a 'business plan' of sorts.
 * <Brady> Ah, I apologize. I withdraw my question.
 * <Sacha> Was it part of the guidelines that the alt and rep have spent time in meetings?
 * No.
 * teamcoltra, do you have a link to the criteria for admission and the criteria for probation?
 * <Brady> I do however wish to ask how much California's principles differ from those in Europe and how it plans to adjust its platforms to California.
 * One sec
 * <QuazarGuy> (Link: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/16/12#5_-_Admission_into_the_PNC_for_MI_Pirates)http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/16/12#5_-_Admission_into_the_PNC_for_MI_Pirates
 * (Link: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/16/12#6_-_PNC_Membership)http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_5/16/12#6_-_PNC_Membership
 * :) close enough to QuazarGuy
 * A PNC member state must adhere to the three main planks of the Pirate Party. It is not required to adopt, nor is it prohibited from adopting, any other positions.
 * <QuazarGuy> CA has addressed all requirements
 * It must have a membership actively attempting to grow.
 * <Sacha> teamcoltra according to that link you were wrong
 * actually sorry
 * It must have a membership actively attempting to grow"
 * It should have both a PNC representative and an alternate, who must both be active members. The state must not miss PNC meetings. *<= Sorry Sacha  was correct
 * actually
 * no it didn't
 * sorry
 * <Sacha> Personally, considering the active state of the pnc it would be no biggie to let that tiny technicality slide, plus we can interpret it to me actively involved in the state party if we wish
 * I have to consult QuazarGuy on his score keeping
 * because how i read the minutes, it didn't pass... but I could be wrong?
 * <QuazarGuy> it makes sense to me that they be active members of the state
 * <OrionSteele> sorry got disconnected for some reason
 * <QuazarGuy> I don't think it was addressed
 * QuazarGuy yeah, but the question is do both have to be active?
 * <QuazarGuy> I assume president of CAPP would be active
 * <QuazarGuy> and Orion is talking to us now
 * <Brady> I withdraw all questions in consideration of time. I have no further questions.
 * <OrionSteele> he will, i can guarantee that Jake will be available when i am not
 * you can always have multiple alternates.
 * actually the rule did pass, 6 to 0 that both must be active at every meeting. (This also applies to every other party too)
 * <QuazarGuy> I should save time stamps
 * It should have both a PNC representative and an alternate, who must both be active members. The state must not miss PNC meetings. *<= but I believe it means 'both be active members of their party, and that the state itself cannot miss am eeting"
 * that's how I, as the chair of this meeting, will interpret the rule
 * any member can object to my interpretation though
 * <OrionSteele> i know i haven't been at every meeting, but believe we can make sure we are present
 * <QuazarGuy> I think that's correct, one of them must be present
 * <OrionSteele> the rule looks like we might want to get some other active people in here though
 * <Brady> Washington also interprets it thus.
 * <Brady> However, it may require more clarity in the language.
 * This rule would actually mean all full members would have to be deranked if interepreted the other way
 * <Brady> This can be taken into account during in the Constitutional draft
 * except maybe Washington
 * Anyway, so yeah, any more questions for OrionSteele?
 * or would we like to vote on their admittance?
 * I would like to move that we vote on the motion.
 * <Rush> I do have a question for him, but would rather take it to IM chat
 * <@kusanagi_mobi> Sorry I keep dropping guys
 * Rush do you want a quick recess to do so?
 * <Rush> No, we can do it as the meeting goes on
 * Awesome so it has been moved to vote on Californias Pirate Party be admitted into the PNC. Is there any objections to this motion?
 * (one sec)
 * I am going to preface this vote for a second as I am considering this a "Major Vote", so I would like to make sure everyone is aware of exactly what they are voting on, and what instructions they have for voting.
 * It is my place to remind everyone that it is up to the discretion of every state whether to adopt a new member or not, it is also up to each and every one of you individually to decide if the party has met the burdens which have been set forth in the rules
 * By voting "aye" below you will be giving approval to the MIPP to be given full voting rights as well as voice in these meetings and will become your peer. This /can/ be revoked later by majority vote, but this should be used as an extreme measure.
 * The motion is now on the floor, if you are in favour of PPCA becoming a full recognized member of the PNC vote aye. If you are against it, vote Nay. Ayes must outnumber both Nay and Abstentions (as is normal).
 * The vote must get 50% + 1 to pass
 * <QuazarGuy> hold on
 * QuazarGuy?
 * <QuazarGuy> MIPP?
 * Whoops, copy/pasted thought I switched the mall
 * Please read any instance of MIPP to be PPCA
 * <Sacha> LOL
 * Yeah... I was about to point that out myself
 * <Brady> Sacha switched your packets.
 * Order please, let us vote.
 * (you can tease me after :) )
 * <Brady> Will the Chair please reiterate the vote with the correct subjects?
 * The vote on the floor wasn't impacted by the previous statement, because the last paragraph clarifies the motion on the floor
 * <Rush> what
 * However, I will reiterate anyway for clearity because it is an important vote
 * The motion is now on the floor, if you are in favour of PPCA becoming a full recognized member of the PNC vote aye. If you are against it, vote Nay. Ayes must outnumber both Nay and Abstentions (as is normal).
 * <Sacha> Yeah, i'm wiley
 * <Brady> Aye
 * <Rush> aye
 * <Sacha> aye
 * <jarod_> aye
 * aye
 * <MrSquared> aye
 * Aye
 * kusanagi_mobi
 * kusanagi - do you have a vote?
 * Okay then I am calling it.
 * QuazarGuy can you provide the official total?
 * <QuazarGuy> 6 for
 * Congratulations to California in being our newest member of the PNC
 * <@kusanagi> YAY
 * <@kusanagi> !deop
 * <OrionSteele> yay thank you!! very happy to be part of the PNC
 * <Sacha> yaaay!
 * hooray
 * <jarod_> i have to go, ill be mobile but not sure how active i can be matuck please take over if you can
 * jarod_ matuck wasn't here a bit ago
 * <jarod_> i see him logged in, again ill be online but i will be slow to respond
 * QuazarGuy for voting purposes, would it make it easier for you if we gave half ops to each of the full members and voices to the at-large members?
 * <QuazarGuy> yeah
 * <QuazarGuy> only half-op one rep from each state
 * <Brady> !halfop teamcoltra
 * <Brady> Hmm
 * <Brady> !op
 * <@Brady> !halfop teamcoltra
 * It's hop
 * <@teamcoltra> !hop Rush
 * <Rush> what
 * <@teamcoltra> lol Brady it's broken
 * <Rush> !hop
 * !op
 * <@teamcoltra> !voice Rush
 * <@kusanagi> Hmm
 * <+Rush> pancakes?
 * <@teamcoltra> maybe it doesn't do half ops?
 * <@Brady> Looks like.
 * <QuazarGuy> voice the states and leave at-larges alone
 * <@teamcoltra> !voice MrSquared
 * <@teamcoltra> !voice Jarod
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay
 * <@teamcoltra> Does that look about right?
 * <@kusanagi> !deop
 * Yep
 * <@teamcoltra> !voice kusanagi
 * <+kusanagi> No
 * <QuazarGuy> Brady
 * <+kusanagi> Zac is taking over
 * <+kusanagi> Well, next week, anyway
 * <@Brady> !deop
 * <@teamcoltra> This is only temporary
 * <@teamcoltra> !voice Brady
 * <+kusanagi> Oh
 * <+kusanagi> Depr
 * <@teamcoltra> Anyway, okay sorry about that guys, just wanted to make it a little asier
 * <+OrionSteele> it's fine, now we have + marks :)
 * <@teamcoltra> So the next order of business is the constitutional committee
 * <+kusanagi> Yep
 * <Sacha> Can I still talk?
 * <@teamcoltra> Sacha only if someone moves it
 * <@teamcoltra> and it passes
 * <@teamcoltra> I didn't see any emails on the SAB for people accepting their nomination
 * <Sacha> I meant due to +
 * <@teamcoltra> last week in the meeting Rush, Zac, and Brady all accepted (the later by proxy)
 * <+kusanagi> Dan has also accepted
 * <@teamcoltra> Was that emailed to the board?
 * <+Rush> Were we supposed to acknowledge it via SAB?
 * <@teamcoltra> Well it was said to confirm your nomination by Sunday
 * <@teamcoltra> You already confirmed
 * <@teamcoltra> The reason we did that was so that states could all go back to their members and ask who they supported most for the position
 * <@teamcoltra> We can either extend this out for one more week, or vote on the 3 people who we all knew accepted last week.
 * <+erixoltan> sorry, what is the exact motion?
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan it's not a motion, we are voting on the two co-chairs to be in charge of the constitutional committee
 * <+erixoltan> ok thanks
 * <+Brady> I motion to allow Sacha to briefly make a comment on the vote.
 * <@teamcoltra> However, we have to decide what we are going to do (and this will require a motion)
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady has moved to allow Sacha to make a brief (no more than a couple lines) statement on the vote
 * <@teamcoltra> all in favour?
 * <+Brady> Aye.
 * <+MrSquared> aye
 * <+erixoltan> aye
 * <@teamcoltra> I believe we now need 4 votes for quorum
 * <+Rush> aye
 * <@teamcoltra> Thank you.
 * <@teamcoltra> Sacha go ahead
 * <Sacha> Last week this was discussed so late that no clear plan was agreed upon before adjourning for the night. Simply "confirm by sunday" on Saturday I sent out an email to the board requesting further instruction and recieved nothing back. I think we should keep that in mind before ruling on whether or not we cut out the people that were not confirmed last meeting.
 * <Sacha> That's all/done
 * <OrionSteele_> wanted to say aye
 * <+Brady> Hahaha
 * <@teamcoltra> :) You are late, but she got approved. THank you OrionSteele_
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay, so we need a motion if we are going to vote amongst the 3 candidates Brad, Zac, and Brady... or to table the vote another week
 * <+Brady> Clarification requested - Were there other potential candidates considered who missed this deadline?
 * <@teamcoltra> preferably if you choose the table option, you set a mandate that people who accept nomination will email the SAB mailing list
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady yes
 * <@teamcoltra> THere were 6 initial candidates
 * <+Brady> The Constiution Committee would have, at present, 2 weeks to finish the first draft of the constitution.
 * <+Brady> It may be better to move forward now or discuss the deadline.
 * <+erixoltan> Who are the other candidates?
 * <+kusanagi> You, erixoltan
 * <+kusanagi> Dan Gorski from NYPP
 * <+kusanagi> And uh..
 * <+kusanagi> I forgot the other
 * <+Brady> Or put a short expiration date on the committee.
 * <+erixoltan> I want to be a member but not the chair.
 * <QuazarGuy> eric has just confirmed that he won't run for co-chair
 * <+kusanagi> I see that now
 * <@teamcoltra> so thats still 2 that are unaccounted for, 1 of which we know wanted to run
 * <@teamcoltra> (dan)
 * <+kusanagi> I'll shoot him a text, but he's asleep right now.
 * <@teamcoltra> Well that doens't matter, the point of the notice was so that states could talk to their members and decide
 * <@teamcoltra> if he agrees right now... the states wont have that ability
 * <QuazarGuy> I suggest someone either motion to put off the vote or extend the temp PNC deadline
 * <@teamcoltra> (or both)
 * <+Brady> I am dubious about extending the temp deadline
 * <+Brady> Seems like something Congress would do.
 * <+Brady> The pressure may encourage swifter action.
 * <@teamcoltra> Right now they only have 2 weeks to come up with a full constitution
 * <+Brady> This is true
 * <@teamcoltra> I don't see a way to have a democratic vote this week either, unless we say "rules are rules, only 3 people followed them"
 * <QuazarGuy> no point in denying reality
 * <@teamcoltra> and we just vote on the two
 * <@teamcoltra> (on the three sorry)
 * <@teamcoltra> (vote on the two co chairs)
 * <+Rush> Sacha running?
 * <+Rush> Dammit
 * <+Rush> mt
 * <+Brady> From what I understand, there were only really 4 candidates.
 * <+Brady> Brad, Brady, Dan, Zac
 * <+Brady> The others were phantom candidates.
 * <+Rush> Gotcha
 * <@teamcoltra> but Dan did not accept nomination
 * <@teamcoltra> If we vote this week, it has to be Brady, Rush, and Zac
 * <+Rush> Let's just say we have co-co-chairs and all three of us be it
 * <+erixoltan> Do we have a motion to vote?
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan there is no motion on the floor right now
 * <@teamcoltra> I would like someone to make one
 * <QuazarGuy> the pnc should at least choose a committee representative to provide progress reports
 * <@teamcoltra> Or we can have a single chair person (which is my suggestion)
 * <+Brady> I agree with teamcoltra - there is no need for multiple chairs here.
 * <+erixoltan> I would like to move that we have three co-chairs for the Constitutional Committee, and that they are Brady, Rush and Zac. With their specific roles to be worked out among them, and that we put it on the agenda to revisit this issue in two weeks time.
 * <+erixoltan> In view of Brady's comment I am happy to withdraw my motion.
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan I don't see what comment by Brady would counter your statment
 * <@teamcoltra> counter your motion*
 * <+erixoltan> *<+Brady> I agree with teamcoltra - there is no need for multiple chairs here.
 * <@teamcoltra> oh that's scary, it didn't show up for me
 * <@teamcoltra> oh nevermind there it is :\
 * <+erixoltan> np
 * <@teamcoltra> Are you withdrawing your motion erixoltan ?
 * <+erixoltan> yes.
 * <+erixoltan> I would like to ask Brady what he thinks we should do, as one of the nominees.
 * <+Brady> Washington motions to vote now on a single chair for the Constitution Committee to act primarily as a representative to the PNC from the following: Brad, Brady, Zac.
 * <@teamcoltra> Seconds?
 * <+erixoltan> Sorry, weren't there four nominees?
 * <+kusanagi> There was a fourth, but he didn't post his acceptance to the SAB.
 * <+erixoltan> So it's just those 3 that Brady mentioned?
 * <+Brady> Nor did he confirm during the meeting via proxy.
 * <@teamcoltra> Yep
 * <+erixoltan> I'll second.
 * <+kusanagi> Brady: he couldn't, as he was asleep for work. But no big.
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so the current motion is on the floor "to vote now on a single chair for the Constitution Committee to act primarily as a representative to the PNC from the following: Brad, Brady, Zac."
 * <@teamcoltra> discuss
 * <+Brady> Washington is willing to accept his confirmation belatedly.
 * <+Rush> I'd rather there be more than one
 * <@teamcoltra> Rush do you want to make an amendment?
 * <+Brady> Washington's position is that there needs to be a single representative for the Constitution Committee to report to the PNC, unrelated to the organizational structure of the committee itself.
 * <+Rush> Right now I'm going to be pretty busy for the next few days. I have a freelance assignment due in five days and a job interview Friday. If I were selected I would not be able to run on all eight cylinders on this for a few days
 * <@teamcoltra> Also Brady as the chair, unless you wish to pass a vote, I don't feel comfortable accepting his belated nomination. It encourages parties to not have to talk with their membership, and also is unfair to others who don't have proxies at the meeting right now
 * <QuazarGuy> that's reasonable
 * <+Brady> To be honest, if we define the chair's responsibilities as including reports to the PNC, I may feel that Zac is a better choice.
 * <Sacha> Teamcoltra could you please clarify for the purposes of the vote what you mean with your last comment? Who is 'his'
 * <+Brady> I am usually occupied during PNC meeting's timeslot, and thus would not be able to fulfill my entire capacity with 100% attention.
 * <+erixoltan> I would like to do whatever is fastest to make progress - having one chair would be easy to manage but the person would have to guarantee that they have the bandwidth to organize this.
 * <+erixoltan> Having multiple chairs would increase the likelihood of getting some results, but there would be a risk of a leadership vacuum.
 * <+Brady> Does Zac have this bandwidth?
 * <QuazarGuy> we should change chair to be pnc representative of the constitution committee
 * <+Brady> The leadership vacuum, in my opinion, is the more dangerous of the options.
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay reports to the PNC are not a 2 page essay
 * <@teamcoltra> they are very much like what we do for states
 * <@teamcoltra> "oh we worked on this and that"
 * <+Brady> This is true.
 * <+Brady> Though they may require many aspects of the constitution to be considered and voted on by the PNC individually.
 * <+erixoltan> I think the primary issue for the PNC is accountability. If nothing gets done then we need to have someone to explain what is going on, and we need to be empowered to make a change.
 * <@teamcoltra> If you guys keep minutes or logs of what you are working on, then you can include those in your update to us. :P It's not like you will be dedicating hours of your life to updating us
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan which is why I like one person
 * <@teamcoltra> Sacha "his" being Dan from New York
 * <@teamcoltra> "him"*
 * <+erixoltan> I'm OK with one person.
 * <+Brady> Washington motions to have only one chair for the Constitution Committee.
 * <QuazarGuy> the committee determines its own organization as we discussed in a previous meeting
 * <@teamcoltra> Also let's note that the chair isn't the one responsible for doing 100% of the work, it should be equally shared amongst all committee members, they are simply the ones who will ensure work gets done and assign tasks if needed
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady your previous motion already does that
 * <@teamcoltra> Which is still on the floor
 * <+Brady> I'm trying to break it up into chunks.
 * <+Brady> =3
 * <@teamcoltra> It's been moved and seconded.
 * <+Brady> I apologize and will follow proper order.
 * <@teamcoltra> It can only be discussed, amended, and voted on. It's no problem. Just a heads up for you :)
 * <@teamcoltra> So does anyone want to make any amendments to the motion on the floor? to vote now on a single chair for the Constitution Committee to act primarily as a representative to the PNC from the following: Brad, Brady, Zac.
 * <@teamcoltra> Please just say yes, instead of making the amendment so I know if I can move on or not
 * <+Brady> Washington does have any amendments to forward.
 * <+erixoltan> none here
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady does or doesn't?
 * <+Brady> Correction: Doesn't*
 * <@teamcoltra> Seeing no amendments, we are going to vote. Since this is on a person, we will be doing a secret vote. Please query QuazarGuy with your choice for the single chair position in order of 3 2 1. If you give a person a score of 3 that means you want them to be the chair most. 1 being least
 * <+erixoltan> Hold on. I thought we were voting on Brady's motion to elect a single chair, rather than selecting the actual chair.
 * <@teamcoltra> OH
 * <@teamcoltra> sorry
 * <@teamcoltra> you are right
 * @teamcoltra slaps myself on the wrist for being out of order
 * <+kusanagi> It's okay
 * <+erixoltan> lol
 * <+kusanagi> It's been a long ,eeting
 * <+kusanagi> Meeting, even
 * <@teamcoltra> to vote now on a single chair for the Constitution Committee to act primarily as a representative to the PNC from the following: Brad, Brady, Zac.
 * <+Brady> Washington votes Aye.
 * <@teamcoltra> We are now voting on: to vote now on a single chair for the Constitution Committee to act primarily as a representative to the PNC from the following: Brad, Brady, Zac. All in favour say aye
 * <+Rush> aye
 * <+erixoltan> aye
 * <+MrSquared> aye
 * <Sacha> aye
 * <+kusanagi> Aye
 * <+Brady> Confirmation: Aye
 * <@teamcoltra> okay I will cal lthe vote
 * <QuazarGuy> 5.5 for
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so voting on these people
 * <@teamcoltra> it's a little complex (not too bad) so let me explain:
 * <@teamcoltra> Please query QuazarGuy with your choice for the single chair position in order of 3 2 1. If you give a person a score of 3 that means you want them to be the chair most. 1 being least, but still capable; if you only vote for 1 person then the other two people will get a score of 0 (or if you vote for 2 and leave the third blank that person would get 0). If John Sally and Bob were running for chair, and I wanted Bob to be chair, Sally
 * <@teamcoltra> if bob wasn't elected, and John was my last choice (but I still thought he could do it)... I would query QuazarGuy with this: "Idaho votes 3 bob 2 sally 1 John"
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy will give you a key code
 * <@teamcoltra> and share the results as cast, with a key.
 * <@teamcoltra> at large votes will be added together, and then arranged in order of 3 2 1
 * <QuazarGuy> it's going to take me a while to do this :)
 * <@teamcoltra> based on popularity of the vote cast
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy really you can put it into a spreadsheet and get the score very quickly
 * <@teamcoltra> it's just simple math
 * <@teamcoltra> The person whose score is highest at the end of the vote will have won the position.
 * <QuazarGuy> I also have to put the votes on the pad
 * <@teamcoltra> Please Cast Your Votes Now, In Secret, to QuazarGuy ---
 * <@teamcoltra> Let's have a 5 minute recess while QuazarGuy does his thing.
 * <Sacha> Sounds like burrito time to me! Party hard boys and girls.
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady erixoltan kusanagi  MrSquared  Rush Jarod  matuck Sacha  CalebLangeslag  itspara
 * <+Rush> what
 * <+erixoltan> Sorry I don't understand what to do with the key code.
 * <Sacha> I totes sent my message, at least I think that is what we were supposed to do
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan the key just lets you know you voted successfully and we will post the results publicly
 * <@teamcoltra> but with your key code
 * <@teamcoltra> that way you know your vote was counted
 * <+erixoltan> aha OK thanks.
 * <@teamcoltra> Also if there are 10 keycodes we can assume that there was some foul play going on ;)
 * <@teamcoltra> !voice Jarod
 * <Sacha> Mi plans to vote 5 times, just warning you in advance
 * <+erixoltan> There are 3 candidates, so you could actually vote six times without repeating yourself. :)
 * <QuazarGuy> ok
 * <Sacha> Look at Erik doing math :P
 * <QuazarGuy> votes tallied
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan actually more than that... there is that zero option as well
 * <+erixoltan> oooh....
 * <Sacha> *drumroll*
 * <QuazarGuy> Zac
 * <+kusanagi> !!
 * <Sacha> sweet sweet
 * <+Rush> What were the totals?
 * <@teamcoltra> ... was that the result? :P You could have put some more fanfare into it
 * <QuazarGuy> Zac 13.5, Brady 12.5, Brad 7
 * <@teamcoltra> Ummm...
 * <@teamcoltra> there could have been no point .5
 * <QuazarGuy> only 1 at-large vote
 * <QuazarGuy> their vote is then a half vote
 * <+Brady> Anonymity, POOF
 * <QuazarGuy> so 1.5, 1, 0.5
 * <@teamcoltra> Not really. It could have been itspara
 * <@teamcoltra> Theoretically
 * <QuazarGuy> there are two at-large people present
 * <@teamcoltra> I would suggest in the future even if there is 1 at large vote, for these types of votes we give them a full vote
 * <@teamcoltra> for anonymity and such
 * <QuazarGuy> that would change the result
 * <QuazarGuy> it would've tied
 * <+erixoltan> Let's figure that out at a future time. It's a good point but someone should come up with a proposed solution we can discuss and vote on.
 * <@teamcoltra> Well I said that the at large would get averaged into 3 2 1
 * <@teamcoltra> I didn't state anything about the half votes. I really don't want to waste everyones time here
 * <@teamcoltra> But I have to rule that the results were 13 13 and 7
 * <QuazarGuy> it would be 14 14 and 8
 * <@teamcoltra> Sorry
 * <@teamcoltra> 14 14 and 8
 * <QuazarGuy> I shall change it in the minutes
 * <+Rush> Look guys, I'm kinda frazzled, busy, and tired. I really need to head out ,sleep for a bit, then wake up early and continue running at ten cylinders until I crash
 * <@teamcoltra> We will eliminate Brad, and hold a revote. Please everyone submit your choice again, this time being 2 1 or 0  please query QuazarGuy
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady erixoltan Jarod  kusanagi  MrSquared Rush itspara Sacha
 * <Sacha> k
 * <QuazarGuy> I can just eliminate Brad from the previous vote and recount
 * <+erixoltan> Wouldn't that result in another tie?
 * <@teamcoltra> exactly
 * <Sacha> Just re-vote people may change without brad to consider
 * <QuazarGuy> no it won't
 * <QuazarGuy> oh yeah it would
 * <@teamcoltra> oh
 * <@teamcoltra> Yeah it would. erixoltan if we were using STV then the rankings would change
 * <@teamcoltra> but not in score voting
 * <@teamcoltra> I would love to use STV but it's too complex for our little votes here
 * <QuazarGuy> ok it looks like there won't be a tie
 * <QuazarGuy> give me five minutes
 * <QuazarGuy> you can move on to other things, this doesn't affect the next item
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy - we have already called for another vote, are you nullifying new votes are just accepting them and doing it over?
 * <QuazarGuy> I'm tallying the second round
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay well let's discuss the VPN
 * <@teamcoltra> Basically I have got us a pretty awesome program that let's each party sell VPN service that is managed by PPI.
 * <+erixoltan> Is that the same thing Canada uses?
 * <@teamcoltra> No, this is managed by another service
 * <@teamcoltra> It also accepts many many kinds of payment
 * <+erixoltan> very interesting. Bitcoin?
 * <@teamcoltra> (Link: http://acceptculture.org/)http://acceptculture.org/
 * <@teamcoltra> yes
 * <+erixoltan> awesome. do we know about speed?
 * <@teamcoltra> I am using it on my computer... and I have 100Mbps on my connection
 * <@teamcoltra> (through my ISP)
 * <Sacha> Could someone explain VPN to me?
 * <@teamcoltra> and I haven't noticed any slow down
 * <+erixoltan> Sacha, a VPN service would let you use somethign like BitTorrent and it would be impossible to tell that you were the one using it. It would protect your privacy. It might look like someone from Europe or Canada was doing the download.
 * <+erixoltan> You would have encrypted traffic to a VPN server and nobody would be able to tell what information you are sending/receiving.
 * <@teamcoltra> There is no cost involved in getting setup or anything. I just have to get your email address and then I will give you the link to use. The page is very generic, that way you could even include it inside your own site in an iFrame or something.
 * <@teamcoltra> Yeah living in Canada I use the VPN so I can access US websites like Hulu
 * <@teamcoltra> back when Spotify was UK only you could have used the VPN to connect to Spotify
 * <+erixoltan> So what exactly is the proposal here? That State Pirate Parties would be able to offer this VPN to our members? Is there something here to vote on or is it just informational?
 * <+Brady> What is the risk of offering this service?
 * <@teamcoltra> You need to keep track of the money you earn
 * <+Brady> Hmm.
 * <@teamcoltra> that's about it
 * <+erixoltan> Can we pass the discount along to our members?
 * <@teamcoltra> You are reselling a service... so the legal issues all go back to the main company and such.
 * <+Brady> Right.
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan yeah I could arrange that
 * <+Brady> It might be a good idea.
 * <+Brady> Though I wonder if that is a service a political party can provide...
 * <Sacha> Could we as a group put out an informational guide on how to use one?
 * <@teamcoltra> PPCA does it, and it finances like 90% of our party
 * <+erixoltan> I think this is a wonderful idea and it's right in line with the kinds of things the Pirate Party should stand for.
 * <Sacha> Erik and I *are* making a PAC so if we had to we could use that and donate the money to the uspp
 * <Sacha> to be sent to the parties or donate directly to the parties*
 * <@teamcoltra> Sacha, for sure, you could also use it for the PAC
 * <+erixoltan> Right but the best thing is if it is legally OK for the state parties to offer it directly to their members. What a way to bring members in to the state parties.
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan that's the beauty of reselling vs making our own VPN
 * <+erixoltan> A PAC or USPP might be useful for people who are in a state with no active party.
 * <+Brady> Sounds good.
 * <+Brady> Can we move it back to the SAB list?
 * <+erixoltan> If five people from Nebraska want to learn about Pirate Party VPN, we might wind up getting a Nebraska Pirate Party out of it.
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan if you wanted to tie it to membership we could also set that up where if they donate $10 a year... then they can get it at X a month. or even just set it up so they can have the option of paying yearly
 * <+Brady> If I understand correctly, we are only waiting on the final vote count?
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan thats true as well. We can all setup VPNs though, they are state by state. I can make changes for states to fit their needs beter
 * <@teamcoltra> Brady we have the final count, but we don't want to get distracted from this conversation. I just want to find out who wants to be setup, so I can create them an account
 * <+erixoltan> Sounds great.
 * <+Brady> Washington is interested.
 * <@teamcoltra> I need an email address
 * <+erixoltan> So this is just informational right? I will take this back to MAPP. I am sure they will be interested based on previous discussions.
 * <@teamcoltra> once we set you up your link will be something like (Link: http://acceptculture.org/wapp)http://acceptculture.org/wapp
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan yes it is, once you guys agree just shoot me a message with your parties email address you would like to use
 * <+erixoltan> OK I am sending them an email now and hope to get confirmation tomorrow.
 * <@teamcoltra> Awesome. Also as I said before, there is really no risk involved in it. The only thing you need to do is make sure that you are following campaign contribution laws
 * <@teamcoltra> Just one other thing though: Once you do it, I encourage you to advertise the shit out of it... because it really can bring in good money. You sign up 100 people and you make $500 every month.
 * <@teamcoltra> Which is a lot of flyers and banners
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so yeah message me if you are interested. Moving back onto elections
 * <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy posted the results, but I will give him the honour of announcing them here
 * <@teamcoltra> (hopefully with more pomp and circumstance this time)
 * <QuazarGuy> lol so
 * <@teamcoltra> Sacha, drumroll?
 * <Sacha> Drumroll!
 * <QuazarGuy> after much tallying
 * <QuazarGuy> and many rounds of voting
 * <Sacha> drumroll continues*
 * <QuazarGuy> Zac has 9 votes and Brady has 8
 * <Sacha> And the crowd goes wild!!!!
 * <QuazarGuy> Zac is the PNC representative for the Constitution committee
 * <@teamcoltra> VERY CLOSE! Congratulations to Zac who isn't here and such a close round of voting for Brady you did well
 * <Sacha> It was great, Brady make sure you are still involved though so that the original ideas can be communicated from when the PNC was formed
 * <+erixoltan> We should nominate chairpeople for the other committees - this is the most interest the constitutional committee has gotten so far.
 * <@teamcoltra> I will accept the award for Zac, you know if he was here... he would want to thank his mother... and his fish that he calls flouner
 * <@teamcoltra> flounder*
 * <@teamcoltra> ;)
 * <+Brady> Is that it for tonight then?
 * <@teamcoltra> I would love for someone to extend the temporary PNC for at least another week or so
 * <@teamcoltra> but that's up to you guys
 * <+erixoltan> sorry when does it expire?
 * <@teamcoltra> 2 weeks
 * <+erixoltan> Let's put that on the agenda for next week?
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay
 * <QuazarGuy> does extending the PNC go to the PNC or USPP?
 * <@teamcoltra> I guess it should pass through both, eh?
 * <+Brady> Hmm
 * <+Brady> I don't believe so.
 * <@teamcoltra> I don't know...
 * <@teamcoltra> I think the PNC should be able to do it itself
 * <@teamcoltra> The PNC doesn't "run" the USPP, and as such the USPP as a whole has no need to vote on how it operates
 * <+Brady> The PNC should be able to extend it on condition that every week it votes on another aspect of the constitution to move it forward.
 * <@teamcoltra> The USPP will vote on it through their elected members
 * <QuazarGuy> well if the PNC is the coming together of the members, then the members should be ones saying its duration
 * <+erixoltan> So do I - until such time as the constitution clarifies matters.
 * <@teamcoltra> erixoltan "so do I" to waht?
 * <+Brady> The PNC is the coming together of the states.
 * <+Brady> Not the members, IMHO
 * <@teamcoltra> Exactly
 * <+erixoltan> I was responding to an earlier sentiment that the PNC can vote itself an extension - typed too slowly.
 * <@teamcoltra> :) No problem, I figured as much... but I wanted your opinion to be clear because we value it
 * <+erixoltan> thanx
 * <QuazarGuy> Brady by members I mean states
 * <+Brady> Ah, yes.
 * <+Brady> Discussion: Shall we motion to adjourn?
 * <@teamcoltra> Okay so the PNC will decide it's own fate
 * <@teamcoltra> and yes I think you should
 * <+Brady> Washington motions to adjourn the meeting.
 * <+MrSquared> second
 * <QuazarGuy> oh one thing
 * <QuazarGuy> sorry
 * <QuazarGuy> it is up to the states that voted in to publicize their own key to their constituents
 * <@teamcoltra> lets vote
 * <+erixoltan> aye
 * <+MrSquared> aye
 * <+Brady> Aye.
 * <+kusanagi> Aye
 * <Sacha> aye
 * <QuazarGuy> called?
 * <@teamcoltra> Yes
 * <@teamcoltra> Sorry
 * <QuazarGuy> 4.5 for
 * <@teamcoltra> Thank you everyone