PNC 9/26/12


 * Agenda PNC MEETING
 * 09/12/2012 21:00h EDT
 * IRC: irc.pirateirc.net
 * Room: #pnc
 * Wiki: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_9/12/12

Attending

 * Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 * Jarod Smith, GA
 * Zacqary Adam Green, NY
 * Eric Fromm, OR
 * Francis Klein, WI
 * Brady Dribble, WA
 * Bradley Hall, FL

Unexcused

 * CA

Probation

 * OK

At Large Members of the PNC

 * Nik, Maryland
 * Kyle DeVore, OR
 * Cullen Matthews, IL
 * Kbenjamin sauerhaft coplon, PA

Officers of the PNC

 * Travis McCrea, WA, Captain
 * Lindsay Anne Brunner, NY, First Mate

Acting QM

 * Amanda Johnson, MI

Proceedings
Meeting closed at:9:06pm EDT by Travis McCrea
 * Meeting chaired by Travis McCrea
 * Acting QuarterMaster is Amanda Johnson
 * Quorum is established: Members 4, 5 or 6 depending on place in meeting out of 8 present
 * Logging Enabled: Yes

Review of previous minutes

 * http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_9/19/12

Massachusetts

 * having a crypto party October 21
 * Non-Mass members can get an account on their website and talk to them
 * Liquid feedback is going from Alpha straight to live
 * Hosting Gregory Engles

Washington

 * Not in

Oregon

 * Nothing to report

New York

 * Hosting Travis
 * Met with Falkvinge yesterday
 * Re-building website
 * Plan to do some canvassing

Wisconsin

 * Making progress with recruiting
 * Stopping in at SDS meeting at the university

Convention Committee

 * Mass moves that "we set the 3rd as the date for the bylaws to be presented  to the PNC, and the nominations deadline as the 17th, and the elections  be postponed to the 24th"


 * Motion passes 4 for, at large for, one abstains

Agenda Items

 * Massachusetts proposes that the PNC choose to interpret Article III,  Section 4 to mean that an observer state can apply for probationary   status as a stepping stone to a future application for full membership.


 * Mass Moves that Article III section 4 adds 3. An observer state applies for probationary status as a stepping-stone to full membership.
 * Motion passes 4 for, at large for


 * Another core value was proposed by California and the PNC came up with the following proposed wording.
 * "We stand for a government that promotes social institutions necessary for  the empowerment, health, and well-being of all people."
 * The captain decided that we will wait for California to speak


 * Massachusetts proposes that Amanda Johnson of Michigan be appointed Quartermaster until such time as elections are held for permanent  officers.
 * WA motions that the PNC reject QuazarGuy's resignation and until the official election, allowing an acting QM to fulfill the role until that time.


 * Motion passes, 6 for

AOB

 * Push to unite the Internet Defense League with the Pirate Party (Cullen Matthews)
 * New low commitment positions (Sacha)


 * Captain Travis says that if people want something done they should just get it done


 * Create a committee about improving the wiki and website, can be seperate or the same commitee. (Sacha)


 * Next meeting: TBA at 9PM EDT
 * Meeting closed: 11:19 pm

Log

 * [18:01:52] andpassstab: Hi is the mumble meeting over?
 * [18:02:02] Sacha: No, it is going on rn
 * [18:02:10] Zacqary: No, it's over.
 * [18:02:21] mildbeard: Here is a link to a recording of the Mumble meeting.
 * [18:02:23] mildbeard: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40575609/pnc-mumble-2012-09-26.wav
 * [18:02:28] mildbeard: It's short but a big file.
 * [18:02:29] teamcoltra: Thanks mildbeard <3
 * [18:02:31] Zacqary: Or at least I think it's over because I'm staring at Travis not talking into a microphone right now
 * [18:02:33] andpassstab: :(
 * [18:02:45] kusanagi: OM NOM NOM
 * [18:02:55] teamcoltra: okay Sacha you ready?
 * [18:03:07] Sacha: Teamcoltra for what
 * [18:03:18] teamcoltra: ... you are the qm
 * [18:03:19] andpassstab: PNC now
 * [18:03:19] andpassstab: ?
 * [18:03:26] mildbeard: stomach growls
 * [18:03:42] teamcoltra: andpassstab yes
 * [18:03:45] Sacha: Teamcoltra so we are starting the PNC meeting now?
 * [18:03:49] Sacha: Okay then yeah I am good
 * [18:04:13] teamcoltra: where did you put the agenda?
 * [18:04:42] Sacha: http://piratepad.net/qlPHjadX4V
 * [18:04:59] Sacha: I sent it on SAB idk how to do fancy header stuff
 * [18:05:19] teamcoltra: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-9-26-12
 * [18:05:20] jarod  (~yaaic@37-34-507-10.pools.spcsdns.net) joined the channel.
 * [18:05:50] teamcoltra: It's 6:05PM PST I call the meeting to order
 * [18:05:53] teamcoltra: roll call please
 * [18:06:01] jarod_: Jarod Smith, GA
 * [18:06:05] Sacha: Amanda Johnson, MI
 * [18:06:08] kusanagi: Lindsay-Anne Brunner
 * [18:06:11] kusanagi:, NY
 * [18:06:12] mildbeard: Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 * [18:06:23] Zacqary: Zacqary Adam Green, NY
 * [18:06:34] itspara: Nik - Maryland Observer
 * [18:06:53] CullenMatthews: Cullen Matthews, IL
 * [18:06:58] Fromm: Eric Fromm, OR
 * [18:07:21] MrSquared: Kyle DeVore, OR (backup)
 * [18:07:28] andpassstab: Kbenjamin sauerhaft coplon
 * [18:07:36] andpassstab: PA
 * [18:07:38] HariSeldon: Francis Klein, WI
 * [18:08:38] teamcoltra: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-9-19-12 please review last weeks minutes
 * [18:09:27] mildbeard: they look good to me.
 * [18:09:33] Sacha: Brady, you in?
 * [18:09:50] Sacha: We only have 4 full members in, which is quorum so like no one leave until the end pls
 * [18:10:22] teamcoltra: QuazarGuy was here a second ago
 * [18:10:22] Zacqary: Good
 * [18:10:25] teamcoltra: in the mumble
 * [18:10:59] stubuntu  (webchat@wvd-31-71-037-31.wi.res.rr.com) joined the channel.
 * [18:11:07] mildbeard: *[20:47]  ok I have to go
 * [18:11:11] teamcoltra: oh
 * [18:11:14] Sacha: oh jk we have 5, quazarguy left
 * [18:11:20] Sacha: well we still have four! So it is okay
 * [18:11:30] Fromm  (webchat@75.148.uo.nyt) left IRC. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 * [18:11:35] teamcoltra: Anyway... let's carry on
 * [18:11:41] Bosun  (~Bosun@lnwkxuj.titania.net) joined the channel.
 * [18:11:57] teamcoltra: Can Mass give us an update? mildbeard
 * [18:11:59] MrSquared: fromm's computer crashed, he'll be back in a minute
 * [18:12:10] mildbeard: MAPP is having a crypto party October 21.
 * [18:12:36] mildbeard: And our LQFB server is going from alpha straight into live mode.
 * [18:12:52] kusanagi: awesooome
 * [18:12:59] mildbeard: People from other state pirate parties are now welcome to get an account. We have a "US Pirate Party" section.
 * [18:13:00] gk  (webchat@pvji-199-75-88-783.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) joined the channel.
 * [18:13:12] mildbeard: uh, that's all that comes to mind.
 * [18:13:16] teamcoltra: Thanks!
 * [18:13:24] Fromm  (webchat@75.148.uo.nyt) joined the channel.
 * [18:13:25] teamcoltra: Oregon
 * [18:13:44] teamcoltra: Fromm or MrSquared (unless you need to be skipped)
 * [18:14:19] MrSquared: we have nothing to report this week
 * [18:14:42] teamcoltra: jarod_ how is Georgia doing?
 * [18:15:15] mildbeard: teamcoltra when there's a break, I forgot to say something really important.
 * [18:15:49] teamcoltra: go ahead mildbeard we can have a second to see if jarod will come around
 * [18:16:03] jarod_: No changes here
 * [18:16:11] teamcoltra: :P then go ahead mildbeard
 * [18:16:34] mildbeard: OK we are hosting Gregory Engels of PPDE (Pirate Party of Germany) possibly October 5 or 6, but we are still working on a venue for his talk.
 * [18:16:36] mildbeard: Now I'm really done.
 * [18:17:20] teamcoltra: :) then I will probably be in town to see it
 * [18:17:38] teamcoltra: Zacqary / New York
 * [18:17:41] mildbeard: Jamie is trying to get in touch with you about that.
 * [18:18:49] Zacqary: This week we're hosting teamcoltra. Hi, Travis. We're beginning to rebuild our website using a modified version of the Germans' Wordpress theme, and later this week we're meeting with two people interested in running for local offices.
 * [18:19:03] Zacqary: And we also plan to do some canvassing.
 * [18:19:10] Zacqary: Anything else to add, guys?
 * [18:19:19] kusanagi: we met with Falkvinge yesterday.
 * [18:19:24] Zacqary: Oh yeah that
 * [18:19:38] mildbeard: awesome
 * [18:19:40] teamcoltra: I am just a humble observer and have nothing to add other than Doritos Tacos were a good idea
 * [18:19:54] Zacqary: So I guess that's it.
 * [18:20:05] teamcoltra: Wisconsin / Bosun
 * [18:20:32] HariSeldon: I'll speak for WI
 * [18:20:32] kusanagi: hah
 * [18:20:56] teamcoltra: HariSeldon go ahead
 * [18:21:14] HariSeldon: We have been continuing to make progress both on social media and in recruiting others in person
 * [18:21:39] HariSeldon: no updates to add to our efforts at UW madison
 * [18:22:04] HariSeldon: bosun might have something about our server.
 * [18:22:09] HariSeldon: i think.
 * [18:22:33] teamcoltra: Bosun are you around or should we wait for later?
 * [18:22:52] Bosun: Yea
 * [18:23:02] HariSeldon: Also we have an observer - stubuntu from WI!
 * [18:23:08] HariSeldon: yay!
 * [18:23:15] teamcoltra: Welcome!
 * [18:23:19] HariSeldon: i have nothing else to add
 * [18:23:21] Bosun: I am probably stopping in at the SDS meeting at UWM.
 * [18:23:43] Bosun: other than that nothing.
 * [18:23:53] teamcoltra: okay pardon my stupidity
 * [18:23:53] HariSeldon: Wi out!
 * [18:23:58] teamcoltra: ... buuut sds uwm
 * [18:24:08] HariSeldon: university of wisconsin milwuakee
 * [18:24:11] stubuntu: students for a democratic society
 * [18:24:12] HariSeldon: =uwm
 * [18:24:28] stubuntu: i was a member when i went to uwm
 * [18:24:37] HariSeldon: nice
 * [18:24:40] teamcoltra: Awesome look forward to seeing what happens
 * [18:24:41] Bosun: cool
 * [18:24:47] teamcoltra: okay so matuck are you around?
 * [18:25:59] teamcoltra: Okay anyone for IT?
 * [18:26:07] kusanagi: listens to crickets
 * [18:26:35] teamcoltra: Bylaws Committee
 * [18:26:36] teamcoltra: Zacqary
 * [18:26:56] Zacqary: Still no progress. Been busy this week dealing with Travis.
 * [18:27:00] Zacqary: He's very time-consuming.
 * [18:27:13] Zacqary: To put it diplomatically.
 * [18:27:13] Zacqary: <3
 * [18:27:14] Sacha: If anyone wants to help
 * [18:27:24] Sacha: here is the draft: http://piratepad.net/8PJjdgPGb7
 * [18:27:47] Sacha: here are the proposed revisions for officers and committees: http://piratepad.net/EOIczOCKAZ
 * [18:27:51] Sacha: so like, go nuts
 * [18:28:12] teamcoltra: Okay thanks IT com
 * [18:28:21] teamcoltra: How is the Convention coming Bosun
 * [18:29:25] teamcoltra: or anyone who is working on the convention committee?
 * [18:29:44] Bosun: I have done a poor job of following up on the meetings. I have been workinging the software end
 * [18:30:01] teamcoltra: The target date was the 3rd I believe?
 * [18:30:04] teamcoltra: is this still the date?
 * [18:30:28] Bosun: I would like some help please. Please mail me Bosun@pp-wisconsin.net
 * [18:30:44] Bosun: Yes ? one way or the other.
 * [18:30:52] kusanagi: I can see what I can do
 * [18:30:54] Bosun: I will make the date work.
 * [18:31:07] Sacha: We need a new target date
 * [18:31:18] Sacha: I think that was the latest proposed due date for the bylaws
 * [18:31:25] mildbeard: Can we just go with our regular IRC meeting instead of getting too complicated, and have the 3rd as the deadline for nominations and the following week for elections?
 * [18:31:41] teamcoltra: mildbeard I am okay with that
 * [18:31:49] Sacha: I think that is too soon, the 3rd is next week
 * [18:32:05] Sacha: I am not comfortable electing officers when we haven't even finished the bylaws
 * [18:32:08] mildbeard: or 3rd bylaws, 10th nominations, 17th elections.
 * [18:32:42] Bosun: If I can gather some people vi e-mail ? for the con com
 * [18:32:49] Bosun: via ..
 * [18:32:50] kusanagi: Bosun, go right ahead
 * [18:32:52] kusanagi: SAB
 * [18:32:56] Sacha: I would say 3rd and 10th bylaws (they never take only one meeting to approve), 17th nominations, 24th elections
 * [18:33:18] mildbeard: ok
 * [18:33:19] Bosun: OK I'll do a dump on SAB
 * [18:33:45] andpassstab  (~AndChat30@32.140.jiw.k) left IRC. (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
 * [18:33:48] teamcoltra: I as a person can't really do anything, especially when it involves elections which I fully intend to participate in. So my hands are fairly tied. The current date is the 3rd, and as far as I can see the rules would enforce that we hold the vote on that date. If we need to change it
 * [18:33:53] teamcoltra: then we need to make a motion stating that
 * [18:34:18] Sacha: When was the 3rd set
 * [18:34:22] Sacha: I do not remember that happening?
 * [18:34:38] Bosun: We did that two weeks ago,
 * [18:34:47] Sacha: Okay, looking it up now
 * [18:34:52] Bosun: as I recall
 * [18:34:55] teamcoltra: two or three it was the last week I was here
 * [18:35:03] kusanagi: ^
 * [18:35:18] mildbeard: I would like to move that we set the 3rd as the date for the bylaws to be presented to the PNC, and the nominations deadline as the 17th, and the elections be postponed to the 24th.
 * [18:35:46] teamcoltra: Seconds?
 * [18:35:48] HariSeldon: second
 * [18:36:15] Bosun: Hari is WI voice.
 * [18:36:39] mildbeard: And if I could append the words "of October 2012" to that - just in case.
 * [18:36:42] teamcoltra: Can we add months onto that
 * [18:36:44] teamcoltra: yeah
 * [18:36:45] teamcoltra: thanks
 * [18:36:51] andpassstab  (~AndChat30@32.164.mlv.lv) joined the channel.
 * [18:37:07] teamcoltra: is there any dissent on this motion?
 * [18:37:33] Sacha: FYI there is nothing in either the past two or three weeks about it being OCT 3rd and too what I see in the logs Oct 3rd was only mentioned in the context of the bylaws due date
 * [18:37:37] Sacha: have a motion though if that will settle things
 * [18:37:46] Sacha: just for the sake of accuracy
 * [18:38:08] teamcoltra: Sacha it's not too important since there is a motion on the floor to fix it anyway
 * [18:38:21] Bosun: I recall now it was the meeting the broke up ? so probably not official
 * [18:38:33] teamcoltra: If there is no dissenting voice then I will just move to vote on the issue
 * [18:38:37] HariSeldon: aye
 * [18:38:43] teamcoltra: wait
 * [18:38:44] teamcoltra: wait
 * [18:38:44] teamcoltra: wait
 * [18:38:49] HariSeldon: awww...
 * [18:39:04] HariSeldon: sorry
 * [18:39:21] mildbeard: orders a taco.
 * [18:39:25] teamcoltra: There is a motion on the floor that we set the 3rd of October as the date for the bylaws to be presented to the PNC, and the nominations deadline as the 17th, and the elections be postponed to the 24th of October.
 * [18:39:42] teamcoltra: All in favour of it
 * [18:39:43] teamcoltra: say aye
 * [18:39:44] HariSeldon: aye
 * [18:39:47] mildbeard: aye
 * [18:39:56] Fromm: aye
 * [18:39:59] CullenMatthews: aye
 * [18:40:23] Zacqary: Aye
 * [18:40:28] teamcoltra: called
 * [18:40:30] andpassstab: Abstain
 * [18:40:42] teamcoltra: Sacha official vote total?
 * [18:41:18] teamcoltra: Anyway I know it passed
 * [18:41:24] teamcoltra: vote total whenever
 * [18:41:27] Sacha: I think... 3 for at large for
 * [18:41:48] teamcoltra: 4
 * [18:41:49] Sacha: No '+' next to pertinent names so we are going on what I know of who is a member state who is not
 * [18:42:17] teamcoltra: it's 4 for, at large for -- I believe -- can you re-count?
 * [18:43:09] Sacha: Yes
 * [18:43:21] teamcoltra: Yes I am right?
 * [18:43:25] Sacha: Mild beard, hariseldon, Zacqary are member states
 * [18:43:31] Sacha: Is Fromm a member state?
 * [18:43:33] teamcoltra: Yes
 * [18:43:34] kusanagi: yes, oR
 * [18:43:39] Sacha: Then yes 4
 * [18:43:40] Fromm: yes
 * [18:43:42] Sacha: at large for
 * [18:44:14] teamcoltra: So now
 * [18:44:29] teamcoltra: Agenda items, unless someone else has something constructive to add to the convention conversation
 * [18:44:38] teamcoltra: which can't be added in private to the convention committee?
 * [18:44:38] NASDAQEnema  (~NASDAQEne@199.254.jiy.ysm) joined the channel.
 * [18:45:00] teamcoltra: okay moving on
 * [18:45:01] teamcoltra: Massachusetts proposes that the PNC choose to interpret Article III,  Section 4 to mean that an observer state can apply for probationary   status as a stepping stone to a future application for full membership.   It is OK if this is a discussion item rather than a motion.
 * [18:45:09] teamcoltra: mildbeard
 * [18:45:35] itspara  (webchat@us.pirate) left IRC. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 * [18:45:38] mildbeard: We discussed this last week, and the consensus was to put it back this week with proposed language for an amendment.
 * [18:45:48] mildbeard: The proposed language for Article III section 4 is to add a new item number 3, and to renumber the current items 3-8 to be 4-9.
 * [18:45:57] mildbeard: The text of the new item 3 would be as follows.
 * [18:46:05] mildbeard: 3. An observer state applies for probationary status as a stepping-stone to full membership.
 * [18:47:05] mildbeard: The consensus last week was that you can't just interpret the section to mean that an observer state can apply for probationary membership, but that it was a good idea, so we should propose some language to make it possible.
 * [18:47:08] mildbeard: That's all I have.
 * [18:47:49] teamcoltra: shakes his fist in the air at the Mass. Pirates for being intelligent and making us do extra work ;)
 * [18:47:59] HariSeldon: haha
 * [18:48:01] mildbeard: chomps taco.
 * [18:48:15] CalebLangeslag  (~CalebLang@33-301-304-07.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) joined the channel.
 * [18:48:27] teamcoltra: I don't disagree with anything you said. Is there anyone who thinks this is a bad idea?
 * [18:48:42] Zacqary: Michelle Bachmann does.
 * [18:48:48] Zacqary: Because she's Michelle Bachmann.
 * [18:48:50] Zacqary: Otherwise, no.
 * [18:48:55] stubuntu: haha
 * [18:48:57] Sacha: Luckily we kicked her from the meeting :P
 * [18:49:15] kusanagi: hahah
 * [18:49:28] HariSeldon: i don't think it's a bad idea, but i feel that it might be a little vague
 * [18:49:42] HariSeldon: do we ever define what probationary status means?
 * [18:49:52] kusanagi: yes, in the const;
 * [18:49:55] mildbeard: Yes. Article III Section 4 defines it.
 * [18:50:04] HariSeldon: ok, nevermind then.
 * [18:50:07] mildbeard: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/Pirate_National_Committee_%28PNC%29/Constitution#Section_4:_Probation
 * [18:50:08] HariSeldon: no objections
 * [18:50:18] CalebLangeslag: So wait, there's politicians from my state that have been in today's PNC meeting? :P
 * [18:52:33] kusanagi: no
 * [18:52:34] kusanagi: lol
 * [18:52:36] teamcoltra: Okay so I have to preface this vote with the fact that it's a vote on an amendment to the constitution as such it is a major vote so I will leave voting open a little longer than normal. Please think about your vote carefully. We are voting on amending the constitution Section III article 4 and adding 3. An observer state applies for probationary status as a stepping-stone to full membership. and adjusting the other numbers accordingly
 * [18:53:01] andpassstab: What
 * [18:53:08] andpassstab: Wjy
 * [18:53:38] andpassstab  (~AndChat30@32.164.mlv.lv) left IRC. (Quit: Bye)
 * [18:53:57] mildbeard: we'd need 2/3 for this one right?
 * [18:54:01] teamcoltra: Yes
 * [18:54:02] kusanagi: yes
 * [18:54:19] teamcoltra: Any questions on what we are voting on or can I poll?
 * [18:54:34] Zacqary: Yes
 * [18:54:45] Zacqary: Wait
 * [18:54:50] Zacqary: Kusanagi told me to say yes
 * [18:54:54] Zacqary: I don't know why
 * [18:54:55] Zacqary: Never mind
 * [18:55:03] teamcoltra: Okay I am opening up the vote
 * [18:55:03] mildbeard: fomclol
 * [18:55:09] teamcoltra: ALl in favour say aye
 * [18:55:16] HariSeldon: aye
 * [18:55:21] Zacqary: Aye
 * [18:55:21] mildbeard: aye
 * [18:56:04] CullenMatthews: aye
 * [18:56:07] Fromm: aye
 * [18:56:35] Sacha: ping jarod jarod_
 * [18:56:51] jarod: Aye
 * [18:57:24] teamcoltra: called
 * [18:57:59] passstab  (~coplon@xx.pirate) joined the channel.
 * [18:58:29] passstab: sorry i'm not used to using a phone like that
 * [18:58:30] gk  (webchat@pvji-199-75-88-783.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) left IRC. (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
 * [18:58:50] teamcoltra: np passstab
 * [18:59:26] teamcoltra: So while we are on amendments -- California offers the following: "We  stand for a government that promotes social institutions necessary for  the empowerment, health, and well-being of all people."
 * [18:59:34] teamcoltra: Does any state which is here wish to endorse this?
 * [18:59:37] teamcoltra: and speak on it?
 * [18:59:43] teamcoltra: otherwise we will wait until California is here
 * [19:00:04] Sacha: I talked to california
 * [19:00:06] Sacha: Orion actually
 * [19:00:10] teamcoltra: any states though?
 * [19:00:15] Sacha: and he said it was fine and to go ahead on facebook
 * [19:00:18] teamcoltra: I need a member state
 * [19:00:31] Bosun: Hari ..
 * [19:01:29] Sacha: Is a member state willing to take me at my word and facebook proof if necessary to do it
 * [19:01:31] Disconnected
 * [19:02:22] teamcoltra  (~travis_mc@hce0814r8.tmodns.net) joined the channel.
 * [19:02:22] Topic is Pirate National Committee of the United States Pirate Party | Meeting Agenda for 9/19/2012: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-9-19-12 | Committees: http://iPir.at/committee | Meetings held on Wednesday, 2100EDT/1800PDT | mumble meeting tonight! Meeting will be delayed 5 or so minutes minutes
 * [19:02:22] Set by teamcoltra  on 26 September, 2012 4:48:45 PM PDT
 * [19:02:22] ChanServ  sets mode  +o teamcoltra
 * [19:02:23] CalebLangeslag: It's awkward that California allegedly has a massive amount of folks and activity, and yet, not a single person present to the PNC. xP
 * [19:02:25] HariSeldon: Once coltra gets back, Wisconsin will sponsor the amendment
 * [19:02:37] teamcoltra: Speak of the devil
 * [19:02:43] HariSeldon: and he will come
 * [19:02:53] HariSeldon: dun dun dun...
 * [19:03:11] HariSeldon: We'll sponsor it.
 * [19:03:44] HariSeldon: point of clarification - what part of the constitution does this amend?
 * [19:04:07] mildbeard: It's in the core values, so it would be a new one at the end.
 * [19:04:14] mildbeard: ANd it would require a 3/4 majority.
 * [19:04:16] Brady: Brady Dibble, Washington
 * [19:04:17] HariSeldon: understood. thank you.
 * [19:04:24] HariSeldon: welcome, brady
 * [19:05:47] HariSeldon: coltra - do you need anything else from me? Should I elaborate on why we sponsor it?
 * [19:05:59] HariSeldon: I am confused as to what the next step is.
 * [19:06:15] teamcoltra: HariSeldon if you are sponsoring it, then it's your responsibility to tell everyone why they should vote for it
 * [19:06:23] HariSeldon: understood.
 * [19:06:29] jarod_  (webchat@68.66.mh.twl) left IRC. (Quit: Web client closed)
 * [19:06:53] Sacha: Now that brady is here
 * [19:06:58] Sacha: can we do the first amendment again
 * [19:07:00] HariSeldon: give me a sec.
 * [19:07:10] Sacha: because now we can actually have enough state votes to make 2/3
 * [19:07:15] mildbeard: fyi here is where it would go
 * [19:07:15] HariSeldon: ok.
 * [19:07:17] mildbeard: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/Pirate_National_Committee_%28PNC%29/Constitution#Section_3:_Core_Values
 * [19:07:23] mildbeard: Sacha we need 3/4.
 * [19:07:25] HariSeldon: i got it, thanks mildbeard
 * [19:07:36] Sacha: Mildbeard I mean the first amendment, the probation one
 * [19:07:43] Sacha: that one failed because only 4 states
 * [19:07:52] mildbeard: ??
 * [19:07:57] Sacha: unless at large pushes it over to 5
 * [19:07:57] mildbeard: That one passed.
 * [19:08:01] kusanagi: What?
 * [19:08:09] Sacha: Mildbeard whoever said that was wrong then, it needs 2/3
 * [19:08:17] teamcoltra: of present states
 * [19:08:18] Sacha: how does at large figure into voting?
 * [19:08:19] kusanagi: 2/3 of quota
 * [19:08:25] mildbeard: no
 * [19:08:32] Bosun: quarum
 * [19:08:39] mildbeard: A state that doesn't show up is abstaining and their vote does not count.
 * [19:08:47] mildbeard: It is 2/3 of votes cast.
 * [19:08:52] teamcoltra: I would feel more comfortable covering this next week, so California can just speak on it themselves.
 * [19:08:53] Sacha: Okayyyyy
 * [19:08:55] Sacha: weird
 * [19:09:04] mildbeard: And for a core value it must be 3/4 of votes cast.
 * [19:09:07] Sacha: Teamcoltra are you sure they will be here next week
 * [19:09:08] HariSeldon: ok...
 * [19:09:15] mildbeard: An abstention doesn't count as a no vote either.
 * [19:09:18] HariSeldon: sacha has a good point
 * [19:09:25] Rush: Bradley Hall, Florida, what have I missed
 * [19:09:33] teamcoltra: An amendment vote and other things
 * [19:10:20] teamcoltra: I am not sure they will be here next week, but if they want this to be in the constitution then they can come and propose it. If anyone here really want's it in, then they can take up the fight, that's great...
 * [19:10:47] teamcoltra: but it doesn't seem like WI really understands the full extent of what this amendment even does, let alone have enough info to convince other people to vote on it
 * [19:11:00] teamcoltra: (which is not meant to be offending, just an observation)
 * [19:11:12] teamcoltra: As such I think we can put this off until next week
 * [19:11:22] HariSeldon: I actually take offense to that observation nonetheless.
 * [19:11:29] HariSeldon: regardless, i agree
 * [19:11:52] HariSeldon: but if they don't show up next week, Wisconsin will take it on
 * [19:12:02] HariSeldon: with cannon blazing
 * [19:12:11] teamcoltra: No problem
 * [19:12:16] Rush: We have a Wisconsin party now?
 * [19:12:18] Sacha: I disagree
 * [19:12:23] Sacha: we have been waiting for weeks already
 * [19:12:32] Sacha: this is the third time we put it off to wait a week
 * [19:12:42] Sacha: I think it is ridiculous considering that we sent it out in emails twice
 * [19:12:50] Sacha: and personally asked them
 * [19:12:54] Bosun: Always a party in Madison and Milwaukee
 * [19:12:56] HariSeldon: I am working on the justification for the amendment... if you give me ten more minutes, then I might be able to present it
 * [19:13:09] teamcoltra: Sacha you have no voice in this, to be honest.
 * [19:13:24] mildbeard: Could I explain why I have reservations about this proposal?
 * [19:13:24] Sacha: Teamcoltra fine then, i'll shut my face
 * [19:13:31] teamcoltra: Rush we have for like 5 weeks now
 * [19:13:48] Rush: Madison and Milwuakee are in Wisconsin?
 * [19:13:51] teamcoltra: mildbeard you /can/ but it seems we are going to wait next week
 * [19:13:57] stubuntu: haha
 * [19:13:57] jarod  (~yaaic@37-34-507-10.pools.spcsdns.net) left IRC. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 * [19:13:57] mildbeard: Green Bay too.
 * [19:14:11] teamcoltra: so we might be best to just hear your counter argument next week?
 * [19:14:14] teamcoltra: so we can move on?
 * [19:14:23] mildbeard: k
 * [19:14:27] HariSeldon: yes. move on.
 * [19:14:36] teamcoltra: Okay
 * [19:14:37] teamcoltra: next
 * [19:14:37] teamcoltra: Massachusetts proposes that Amanda Johnson of Michigan be appointed Quartermaster until such time as elections are held for permanent  officers.
 * [19:16:06] teamcoltra: mildbeard
 * [19:16:09] mildbeard: Point of invormation
 * [19:16:11] mildbeard: information
 * [19:16:24] mildbeard: Did the previous amendment to article III section 4 pass or fail?
 * [19:16:27] MrSquared  (webchat@65.182.wky.sjn) left IRC.
 * [19:16:34] teamcoltra: Passed
 * [19:16:39] mildbeard: ok
 * [19:17:33] mildbeard: So the reason for the agenda item is that there was some doubt whether QuazarGuy had abdicated the position of Quartermaster, and Sacha is working hard so she deserves an @ next to her name. Especially now that elections will be delayed.
 * [19:18:07] mildbeard: that's really all there is to it.
 * [19:18:14] teamcoltra: I think NY will have some input on this
 * [19:19:05] kusanagi: Honestly, I'm not too keen on it
 * [19:20:05] kusanagi: No offense intended, but Amanda has gone on public rampages and has constantly been immature and not something want to have our party known for
 * [19:20:28] kusanagi: that is a public position,m and she will need to act like well, an official
 * [19:21:26] teamcoltra: I am for it, she's trying hard and she is basically the QM anyway -- but I don't know if there is anything in the rules to actually allow for this in general, because it circumvents a vote of no confidence
 * [19:21:46] teamcoltra: (against QuazarGuy who hasn't resigned)
 * [19:22:02] mildbeard: QuazarGuy stated today that he did resign.
 * [19:22:05] Sacha: Am I allowed to speak, or still not allowed to?
 * [19:22:09] Brady: Point of Information - teamcoltra should have received an e-mail with QuazarGuy's resignation.
 * [19:22:14] teamcoltra: Go ahead Sacha
 * [19:22:21] Zacqary: I think you can speak, Sacha, since this concerns you
 * [19:22:26] Sacha: From what I recall
 * [19:22:33] mildbeard: *[20:24]  oh yeah kusanagi *[20:25]  I sent my resignation to Travis a couple weeks ago
 * [19:22:37] Sacha: when I was asked to take up this position
 * [19:22:52] Sacha: Travis told me that Quazarguy resigned via email and asked me to do it
 * [19:22:56] teamcoltra: A couple of weeks ago he didn't actually resign -- because I asked him not to because it would require us hold an election for his position
 * [19:23:03] Sacha: as I have an excellent memory I believe you are mistaken teamcoltra
 * [19:23:18] mildbeard: *[20:24]  oh yeah kusanagi *[20:25]  I sent my resignation to Travis a couple weeks ago
 * [19:23:24] Sacha: The does not change that he did in fact resign
 * [19:23:30] Sacha: and you simply had another fill his position
 * [19:23:37] Sacha: without accepting his resignation
 * [19:23:42] Sacha: those are actually two different things
 * [19:23:58] teamcoltra: I have the email conversation which stated that he agreed that he was not "resigning" but rather going on a leave of absense and having you as his replacement. Since he is now saying he resigned that's different.
 * [19:24:23] teamcoltra: However, that then opens up another can of worms if we can just hold a spontanious election without going through proper election procedures to replace him including a nomination period and stuff
 * [19:24:31] teamcoltra: just in case someone else would like to run for it
 * [19:24:53] mildbeard: I disagree - we're not talking about an official position but rather an acting position which is extra-constitutional.
 * [19:25:02] Sacha: I would like Kusanagi to define public rampages of course, though not in a PNC meeting
 * [19:25:10] Bosun: can-o-worms
 * [19:25:13] Sacha: and I am fine without having the @ symbol next to my name
 * [19:25:29] teamcoltra: but she is acting in the position right now, but that only works if QuazarGuy doesn't resign
 * [19:25:30] Sacha: I appreciate the recognition that Mildbeard is attempting to give to my work anyway
 * [19:25:56] teamcoltra: because right now QuazarGuy is the QM and has asked me to have Sacha fill in for him while he is gone
 * [19:25:59] teamcoltra: which doesn't break the rules
 * [19:26:07] Sacha: There are no rules about this though
 * [19:26:09] teamcoltra: because if Sacha is bad we can VoNC QuazarGuy
 * [19:26:11] Fromm: Point of information. Are we voting to have her be the QM or having her be a temp QM till we can hold elections
 * [19:26:15] Sacha: from my knowledge of the constitution
 * [19:26:24] Sacha: Fromm the second
 * [19:26:30] Fromm: ok
 * [19:27:08] mildbeard: This kind of thing is sure to come up again after elections.
 * [19:27:24] teamcoltra: On the other hand, since QM has no deputy and he is resigning -- we don't have any procedure in place to do anything about it. I really feel uncomfortable just giving someone the position without letting other people run for it
 * [19:27:29] Bosun: write a bylaw.
 * [19:27:32] Sacha: We should add something to the bylaws or constitution about this because there is nothing in there
 * [19:27:34] mildbeard: Wht happens in the future if someone resigns - do we have to hold an immediate election or can someone else fill their position in an acting capacity?
 * [19:27:56] itspara  (~AndChat64@us.pirate) joined the channel.
 * [19:28:27] teamcoltra: Well in the QM's case, if they resign we can always have volunteers do the work until a replacement is found. Or technically I would say that it would be the Deputy who would take over that roll
 * [19:29:20] teamcoltra: Deputy / First Officer
 * [19:29:31] Bosun: Then she can be appointed deputy by the board. ???
 * [19:29:33] jarod  (~yaaic@rxsx-931-407-903-471.aby.bellsouth.net) joined the channel.
 * [19:29:52] Bosun: o.
 * [19:30:15] teamcoltra: techncially we don't have any laws limiting the power of the PNC. So we can hold a majority vote here right now and create any system we want
 * [19:30:51] passstab: don't proposals need to be mentioned on the email list?
 * [19:30:52] teamcoltra: we can even make Sacha the QM or Queen of the party and there really isn't much we can do because it would be valid. That being said, it set's a precident for next time and thats what I am concerned about
 * [19:31:13] teamcoltra: I don't like a system where we just appoint people, without letting a fair election process happen and ask for volunteers
 * [19:31:35] mildbeard: teamcoltra but that's what you did :)
 * [19:31:37] Brady: Point of Information - Who would be voting in this proposed election?
 * [19:31:39] Bosun: You have a good point.
 * [19:31:39] teamcoltra: it's just like a normal job, even when they know who they are going to hire... they still have to put out a job listing to the company
 * [19:31:48] teamcoltra: just to see who wants it and to interview candidates for it
 * [19:32:23] Bosun: Transparancy and an open process.
 * [19:32:30] Sacha: Can we do an election
 * [19:32:32] Sacha: I would like that
 * [19:32:37] Sacha: because I do not even want this position
 * [19:32:47] Sacha: and felt bad for QuazarGuy, which is the only reason I did it
 * [19:33:09] Zacqary: facepalms
 * [19:33:19] kusanagi: I need to walk away
 * [19:33:38] teamcoltra: So here is what I am doing as Captain, I am refusing to accept QuazarGuy's resignation, and letting Sacha continue to fill in for him
 * [19:33:52] teamcoltra: This whole thing is now silly.
 * [19:33:58] Sacha: Teamcoltra I would really prefer if we had an election
 * [19:34:04] teamcoltra: We /are/ having an election
 * [19:34:04] Zacqary: We will
 * [19:34:11] Sacha: Everyone is right transparency
 * [19:34:13] Zacqary: We'll elect QM at the same time as the other officers.
 * [19:34:17] Sacha: Yes, but it is wrong
 * [19:34:21] Sacha: to have a sham of a QM
 * [19:34:24] Sacha: doing the duties
 * [19:34:32] Sacha: when there are other people who might actually want to
 * [19:34:38] Sacha: democracy and everything
 * [19:34:41] passstab: might a bot make this role easier?
 * [19:34:44] teamcoltra: Unless you are suggesting we hold an election so that the QM who is elected can serve for <30 days
 * [19:34:54] teamcoltra: and then go back into an election?
 * [19:34:59] Sacha: Passstab I would still have to pay attention
 * [19:35:01] Sacha: Teamcoltra I am
 * [19:35:12] Sacha: You were suggesting it two seconds ago
 * [19:35:34] teamcoltra: Okay I am ruling an end to this conversation, if someone wants to make a motion on it... who is a full member they can
 * [19:35:34] Zacqary: Does anyone want to take over as acting QM until the election?
 * [19:35:44] Bosun: It is functional ? can we go as is until the election?
 * [19:35:51] passstab: i know, i didn't say nonexistent
 * [19:36:37] mildbeard: Is Sacha saying she doesn't want to continue being acting QM?
 * [19:36:59] Zacqary: I'm not sure how else to interpret "I don't even want the position"
 * [19:37:05] Sacha: Mildbeard I never 'wanted' it in the first place. I did it because QuazarGuy wanted out.
 * [19:37:24] passstab: i doubt anyone "wants" it
 * [19:37:27] mildbeard: OK well that's pretty relevant.
 * [19:37:49] Fromm: Are you willing to keep the temp position until voting can happen in <30 days
 * [19:37:58] Sacha: Yes
 * [19:38:06] Bosun: Yeah!
 * [19:38:10] Sacha: I won't let the party down just because I hate doing this
 * [19:38:55] Fromm: Then we should move on from this subject until the voting day.
 * [19:38:57] Brady: Washington motions that the PNC refuses to accept QuazarGuy's resignation until the official election, allowing an acting QM to fulfill the role until that time.
 * [19:39:16] teamcoltra: Exactly, which I already said I refused his resignation
 * [19:39:22] teamcoltra: I guess the PNC as a whole might have to do it
 * [19:39:29] teamcoltra: but for now I personally, as captain, am not accepting it
 * [19:39:43] Fromm: Oregon seconds Brady's motion
 * [19:41:06] teamcoltra: All in favour of rejecting QuazarGuy's resignation?
 * [19:41:12] Rush: aye
 * [19:41:13] Zacqary: Aye
 * [19:41:13] Fromm: aye
 * [19:41:19] mildbeard: aye
 * [19:41:21] Brady: Aye.
 * [19:41:22] HariSeldon: aye
 * [19:42:11] teamcoltra: Okay in that case we will keep QuazarGuy's wish of having Sacha be his stand-in while he is gone
 * [19:42:32] Brady: Thank you, Sacha.
 * [19:42:50] teamcoltra: Yes and thank you sooooo much Sacha for all your hard work and dedication to the party
 * [19:42:56] teamcoltra: next
 * [19:43:11] teamcoltra: *New low commitment positions (Sacha)
 * [19:43:53] Sacha: Is cullmatthews in?
 * [19:43:58] Sacha: cullenmatthews*
 * [19:45:12] Sacha: I guess not
 * [19:45:21] CullenMatthews: im still here
 * [19:45:31] Sacha: Cool, go with your AOB first
 * [19:45:34] Sacha: the one you emailed about
 * [19:45:40] Sacha: I need to go relax myself
 * [19:45:58] Sacha  (webchat@35.40.lhy.xvv) left the channel.
 * [19:46:00] CullenMatthews: is it AOB time already?
 * [19:46:06] mildbeard: yep
 * [19:46:08] Sacha  (webchat@35.40.lhy.xvv) joined the channel.
 * [19:46:22] CullenMatthews: alrighty then
 * [19:48:16] CullenMatthews: earlier i asked to push that the Pirate Party make an attempt to unite with the Internet Defense League hopefully in order to gain more support and awareness about CISPA if we could successfully unite the two parties, it would give us a huge advantage
 * [19:48:29] Rush: I'm popping in and out, I have Pirate Party emails to respond to
 * [19:48:45] teamcoltra: Did anyone get my response on the list?
 * [19:49:17] teamcoltra: Simply - no. IDL is operated by a 501c3 organization, as such they cannot work with political parties
 * [19:49:27] teamcoltra: so anything we do with them would be one way
 * [19:49:39] teamcoltra: they could not tweet about us, they could not put a link to us on the IDL website
 * [19:50:15] Rush: But we could mention them?
 * [19:50:16] passstab: is that really so bad?
 * [19:50:24] teamcoltra: they could not do anything to reciprocate our love and affection. As such the partnership would be fruitless for the Pirate Party. We can always facebook and tweet about other organizations and support good causes
 * [19:51:16] teamcoltra: but the suggestion here is about uniting our two groups and that's impossible. The most we can do is just support their efforts, which isn't really as much a matter for the whole PNC but just the people who are running FB/Twitter
 * [19:51:25] Bosun: Read the IRS code.
 * [19:51:41] teamcoltra: lol would you like to be more specific
 * [19:51:46] teamcoltra: they have a couple of them ;)
 * [19:52:02] Sacha: http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Charitable-Organizations/Exemption-Requirements---Section-501(c)(3)-Organizations
 * [19:52:15] Sacha: They cannot help us in anyway as we are not an activist group but a political party
 * [19:52:37] passstab: it would only be fruitless if we have a narrow definition of "fruit"
 * [19:52:37] Sacha: If we were spreading awareness (which we are not focused on) about anything besides our group, we could talk to them
 * [19:52:38] teamcoltra: thanks Sacha, exactly
 * [19:53:13] Sacha: I personally suggest that we keep them on the back burner in case we do anything that could allow us profit and them the same
 * [19:53:24] Sacha: Such as spreading awareness about CISPA
 * [19:53:53] Sacha: A full time partnership makes no sense though I personally would encourage that we suggest people from there join us and we join them and double dip
 * [19:54:12] teamcoltra: When they do a campaign, let's support the shit out of it. If they do a "mail your senator" campaign we will get all of our members to write the senator or whatever. However, some kind of partnership will only waste our time promoting an organization which can't support us back
 * [19:54:37] teamcoltra: expending effort for very little gain is my definition of fruitless
 * [19:55:56] itspara: Yeah
 * [19:56:26] Sacha: CullenMatthews You can always keep us informed of their projects and suggest getting involved in one at any time, if you need more help with AOB just email me and I will be sure to add it
 * [19:57:03] itspara: I also get IDL emails and can forward ones of interest to the sab list
 * [19:57:40] teamcoltra: Okay can we go onto Sacha's AOBs?
 * [19:57:48] teamcoltra: or more on CullenMatthews'
 * [19:59:21] teamcoltra: Okay Sacha
 * [19:59:29] teamcoltra: *New low commitment positions (Sacha)
 * [20:00:10] Sacha: Alright so I have been talking about the website outside of the weekly meetings
 * [20:00:16] Sacha: and I have some changes I would like to make
 * [20:00:19] teamcoltra: umm
 * [20:00:22] teamcoltra: that was another AOB point
 * [20:00:26] Sacha: one of my observations when looking at it
 * [20:00:29] teamcoltra: unless they were combined?
 * [20:00:34] Sacha: was that we have a lot of little things that we could be doing
 * [20:00:41] Sacha: Travis, shush
 * [20:00:45] mildbeard: lmao
 * [20:00:53] kusanagi: um..
 * [20:00:58] Sacha: So I thought that it would be a good idea to create some low commitment positions that anyone could do
 * [20:01:04] Sacha: The biggest ones that I had in mind were
 * [20:01:37] Sacha: A moderator for the forums: Our forums are awful and real people do try to use them. We are neglecting moderation but I already have one person who is interested in moderating if we will let them.
 * [20:01:58] Sacha: Another big one would be someone to keep the 'political news' section of the wiki updated
 * [20:03:10] Disconnected
 * [20:03:55] teamcolt_  (~travis_mc@hce0814r8.tmodns.net) joined the channel.
 * [20:03:55] Topic is Pirate National Committee of the United States Pirate Party | Meeting Agenda for 9/19/2012: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-9-19-12 | Committees: http://iPir.at/committee | Meetings held on Wednesday, 2100EDT/1800PDT | mumble meeting tonight! Meeting will be delayed 5 or so minutes minutes
 * [20:03:55] Set by teamcoltra  on 26 September, 2012 4:50:25 PM PDT
 * [20:04:43] teamcolt_: This falls under my "be bold" policy, if you want to do something -- do it
 * [20:04:50] teamcoltra  (~travis_mc@hce0814r8.tmodns.net) left IRC. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
 * [20:04:53] Sacha: Teamcolt_
 * [20:04:53] teamcolt_: if you want me to generate a fancy title for you to feel good about yourself... I will do that
 * [20:04:54] Sacha: No
 * [20:05:03] Sacha: The title has nothing to do with it
 * [20:05:12] itspara: Tj
 * [20:05:14] teamcolt_: Except the moderator, of course, in that case just ask and I would appoint
 * [20:05:23] teamcolt_: or liz would
 * [20:05:27] Sacha: As far as the wiki goes
 * [20:05:28] teamcolt_: or the PNC could
 * [20:05:45] Sacha: QG has been telling me I have to be careful about my changes
 * [20:05:55] Sacha: because it is everyone's wiki etc.
 * [20:06:10] teamcolt_: If someone doesn't like your changes they can change it back
 * [20:06:13] Sacha: and i've had to undo some and only start working on my own page
 * [20:06:23] Sacha: Teamcolt_ Clusterfuck and issues waiting to happen
 * [20:06:38] Sacha: If we appoint someone, then that specific task is their duty
 * [20:06:43] Sacha: they were elected by the PNC
 * [20:06:56] Sacha: there is no argument, they have the authority to do what they were elected to do
 * [20:07:05] Sacha: This is to prevent future disagreement
 * [20:07:20] teamcolt_: Did /I/ tell you that you were doing something wrong? Did the PNC tell you you were doing something wrong? If not then you don't really need to worry about it much.
 * [20:07:24] Sacha: If you like I can work on getting some candidates in the forum and you or liz can appoint them
 * [20:07:28] teamcolt_: Be bold, make the changes you need to make
 * [20:07:31] Brady: Someone does have to have user privs to post news items, do they not?
 * [20:07:32] Sacha: Teamcolt_ Does taht matter, they are people
 * [20:07:45] Sacha: I will not prioritize the Officers over other indiviuals
 * [20:07:48] teamcolt_: Their single opinion isn't the ruling factor of this party
 * [20:07:52] Sacha: Brady Anyone can post in the wiki
 * [20:08:08] teamcolt_: Sacha you don't have to put their opinion under mine, but their single opinion isn't the weight of this party
 * [20:08:12] Sacha: Teamcolt_ Neither is your's, which is why I was asked to stick to talking to others about the changes I wish to make
 * [20:08:22] mildbeard: Personally I think this general idea has merit.
 * [20:08:29] Brady: In reference to the forum and website.
 * [20:08:33] itspara: I think things such as moderators shouldnt be up to the pnc... Put those decisions up for a committee to decide
 * [20:08:50] Sacha: Itspara which will bring me to item number 2 ;)
 * [20:08:52] mildbeard: We have people who don't know how to help out the Pirate Party, and who are from states where there is no active party, and yet they want to help out.
 * [20:09:14] mildbeard: The idea of having low commitment positions means that it's also low risk.
 * [20:09:14] Sacha: Mildbeard exactly, that is where my idea came from
 * [20:09:20] Sacha: A way for people to get a taste of the pirate party and we get free labor
 * [20:09:23] Sacha: which makes us look good
 * [20:09:32] itspara: Like, IT should designate moderators and site volunteers as needed.
 * [20:09:45] Sacha: Itspara an excellent idea
 * [20:09:54] Sacha: Idk maybe a different committee?
 * [20:09:59] Brady: Titles have power.
 * [20:10:00] teamcolt_: Sacha / mildbeard -- yes, but I would much rather them come to us and tell them "hey we are the pirate party, you don't have to ask us for permission to update the wiki -- we empower you to do that yourself"
 * [20:10:02] itspara: But IT doesnt do much of anything right now to my knowledge
 * [20:10:27] Sacha: Teamcolt_ Yeah until they do something you do not like because of their opinion and then what they did was wrong
 * [20:10:31] teamcolt_: having to come ask us for a title, means that we have the option of not giving a person a title, and for things like the wiki we shouldn't be in that game
 * [20:10:35] Sacha: Like say I went in and redesigned the entire website
 * [20:10:37] mildbeard: teamcolt_ if we just leave it to chaos, then nothing will continue to happen.
 * [20:10:44] itspara: In short, what sacha is saying SHOULDNT be something that the pnc needs to concern itself over
 * [20:11:00] Sacha: Itspara Yup. I think that there should be a committee to handle such things
 * [20:11:07] Sacha: like the 'human resource' committee or something
 * [20:11:08] itspara: Its like having congress decide who delivers my mail
 * [20:11:18] Sacha: or maybe 'website design' committee
 * [20:11:21] HariSeldon: overall, though, the positions are a good idea
 * [20:11:27] HariSeldon: i like human resource
 * [20:11:51] Sacha: a subset of IT or something, because I think IT is super disorganized and more focused on code over design or the day to day uses of the website
 * [20:11:51] itspara: Web content maintanance committee
 * [20:11:52] HariSeldon: can we make a motion on that? Would the formation of another committee require an amendment?
 * [20:12:06] mildbeard: no
 * [20:12:10] mildbeard: no amendment
 * [20:12:11] Sacha: HariSeldon well my next item is the formation of a committee, so maybe we could combine the committees
 * [20:12:14] teamcolt_: Good, so we can create another committee which will be run by the same group of people, and be abandoned in two weeks and not achieve anything. I would prefer to make less committees and finally get the committees we have doing their job
 * [20:12:21] Sacha: as they would be intellectually related
 * [20:12:34] Sacha: Teamcolt_ I would officially head up this committee if it would make you feel better
 * [20:12:54] Sacha: I feel that I have shown through the wiki and the QM that I do not just give up when it looks like there is a lot of work
 * [20:13:03] Sacha: I am *still* making a freaking to-do list for that thing
 * [20:13:03] teamcolt_: This is what the IT Committee said when I was uncomfortable with them operating outside of the jurisdiction of the PNC
 * [20:13:07] itspara: Well, it would be best if we did this through IT
 * [20:13:07] teamcolt_: we see how that is working out
 * [20:13:24] Sacha: teamcolt_ Well let's look at other committees the bylaws committe
 * [20:13:27] Sacha: committee*
 * [20:13:34] teamcolt_: Sacha if you are already doing it, then why do you need to have a committee? instead of making a PNC santioned committee
 * [20:13:36] teamcolt_: just do it
 * [20:13:37] teamcolt_: just do it
 * [20:13:39] Sacha: how is the PNC overhead doing at keeping that in
 * [20:13:44] teamcolt_: get some people together and edit the wiki
 * [20:13:54] teamcolt_: I will give you the ability to add moderators to the forum
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 * [20:14:02] Sacha: teamcolt_ literally just to give me authority so that I can actually make decisions and say yeah we can do this
 * [20:14:02] teamcolt_: but not as a PNC thing but because I am empowering you to do stuff
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 * [20:14:16] teamcolt_: You don't /need/ the authority because we are a party of empowerment and you could have done it anyway
 * [20:14:18] teamcolt_: without asking
 * [20:14:26] Sacha: I do not need to PNC
 * [20:14:35] Sacha: but it would be a fucking lot of help if I have to justify myself
 * [20:14:57] Sacha: or show where my authority comes from
 * [20:14:57] Sacha: and not be like
 * [20:15:07] teamcolt_: It's like Cory Doctorow's policy on people asking him to make derivatives of his work. He refuses to give people permission, because then that makes it seem like they needed the permission
 * [20:15:12] Sacha: "I appeared off the street and I give you permission to do such and such"
 * [20:15:25] Sacha: Teamcolt_ This is not a derivative
 * [20:15:30] teamcolt_: no, it's an example
 * [20:15:32] Sacha: this is not creating something
 * [20:15:32] Sacha: this is a collaborative effort
 * [20:15:32] teamcolt_: you don't need to ask
 * [20:15:36] teamcolt_: because you already had permission
 * [20:15:49] Sacha: if Cory was putting his name on their manuscript I can guarantee
 * [20:15:55] Sacha: that his answer would be different
 * [20:16:08] Sacha: You are all putting your name on what I or anyone else does to the wiki/website
 * [20:16:23] Sacha: If I am not given official permission saying that you trust mine or other people's judgment
 * [20:16:28] teamcolt_: I already said -- just do it. Go ahead and make this committee that you are talking about.
 * [20:16:30] Sacha: how can you possibly feel comfortable doing that
 * [20:16:43] Sacha: Teamcolt_ With all due respect you are not the PNC
 * [20:16:56] Sacha: and I personally do not feel comfortable doing so unless I am given official permission
 * [20:16:58] teamcolt_: I refuse to accept the validity of any motion on this topic, because you already had permission.
 * [20:17:09] Sacha: I refuse to accept that I have permission
 * [20:17:10] Zacqary: Guys, people are getting tired. Can we move this along and wrap up the meeting soon?
 * [20:17:15] itspara: You already have permission
 * [20:17:30] Brady: If you do not feel comfortable with doing it...do not do it.
 * [20:17:42] teamcolt_: thank you Brady
 * [20:17:43] Sacha: I swear to god Travis McCrea if this blows up in my face I will get you, for now i'll just go ahead and do it
 * [20:17:44] passstab: teamcolt_, you should make a motion to deny validity of this
 * [20:17:51] Sacha: lololol
 * [20:17:51] teamcolt_: i can't make motions
 * [20:17:52] Brady: wat
 * [20:17:53] Sacha: anyway, we can go on
 * [20:17:57] teamcolt_: Why are we even fighting Sacha? Just do it. you came asking for permission. You have it.
 * [20:18:00] teamcolt_: go forth in the world
 * [20:18:02] teamcolt_: be free
 * [20:18:12] Sacha: Great, poetry
 * [20:18:20] teamcolt_: Someone want to adjourn?
 * [20:18:28] HariSeldon: motion to adjourn
 * [20:18:35] Sacha: So then we can just yolo on the website design too?
 * [20:18:36] Zacqary: Second
 * [20:18:39] Zacqary: For the love of all that is holy, second
 * [20:18:42] Sacha: k yolo
 * [20:18:50] teamcolt_: Sacha actually the IT committee can go YOLO on the website
 * [20:19:02] teamcolt_: all in favour of adjourning
 * [20:19:03] Brady: Next person who says yolo...
 * [20:19:05] Brady: Aye
 * [20:19:06] Zacqary: AYE
 * [20:19:08] HariSeldon: aye
 * [20:19:08] passstab: AYE!
 * [20:19:08] Fromm: aye
 * [20:19:17] mildbeard: aye
 * [20:19:20] teamcolt_: called
 * [20:19:22] teamcolt_: adjourned
 * [20:19:26] Zacqary: Kthxbai
 * [20:19:26] teamcolt_: kicks everyone out
 * [20:19:29] HariSeldon: bye
 * [20:19:33] kusanagi: lol
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 * [20:19:52] passstab: #pppa will have it's first meeting sometime soon
 * [20:20:00] kusanagi: awesome
 * [20:20:03] kusanagi: a bit late for that
 * [20:20:09] passstab: s'ok
 * [20:20:27] passstab: i'd rather be late then interrupt
 * [20:20:33] passstab: good night
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