PNC 9/12/12


 * Agenda PNC MEETING
 * 09/12/2012 21:00h EDT
 * IRC: irc.pirateirc.net
 * Room: #pnc
 * Wiki: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_9/12/12

Attending

 * Zacqary Adam Green, NY
 * Joseph T. Klein, Wisconsin
 * Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 * Bradley Hall, Florida
 * Jared Smith, Georgia

Excused

 * Oregon

Unexcused

 * California
 * Washington

At Large Members of the PNC

 * James Eastman Jr, Michigan

Officers of the PNC

 * Lindsay-Anne Brunner, New York, First Mate/Acting Chair

Acting Quartermaster

 * Amanda Johnson, Michigan

Proceedings
Meeting closed at: --:--pm EDT by Lindsay-Anne Brunner
 * Meeting chaired by
 * Secretary for this meeting is
 * Quorum is established: Members X out of 8 present
 * Logging Enabled: Yes

Review of previous minutes
http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_8/5/12

Massachusetts

 * Preparing for the upcoming Freedom Rally on 9/15

Georgia

 * May appear in a local newspaper

Florida

 * Should be starting on NSH2

New York

 * Meeting with Joe Lafazan
 * Travis is coming in Two weeks

Wisconsin

 * Working on software upgrades to prepare for major webiste development
 * Protested at the capitol without a permit

Agenda Items

 * Proposed Rewording for Core Value 6 in the Pirate Constitution.
 * "We are a post-ideological values-based meritocracy. We place all options on the table. We choose a specific approach because the available evidence shows that it is the best way to promote our values. We do not make decisions based merely on tradition, popularity, authority or political expediency."


 * Massachusetts wishes to note that this wording does not in any way exclude affirmative action. Core value 7 is about equality. If discrimination exists or has existed, and if affirmative action is the most effective way to level the playing field, then we should use it because it works. If some other approach works better, then obviously we want to know what that is.

motion: that the wording of core value 6 be replaced with the above. This amendment requires a 3/4 majority per Article VII Section 1.


 * Another core value was proposed by California and the PNC came up with the following proposed wording.
 * "We stand for a government that promotes social institutions necessary for the empowerment, health, and well-being of all people."


 * motion: that a new core value be added to the Constitution, having the above text. This amdendment requires a 3/4 majority.

motion: amend that item to the above text. This amendment requires a 2/3 majority per Article VII Section 1.
 * An amendment was proposed that would change the existing language about the requirements for Captain and Officers. Article IV, Section 2, Item 1.
 * "To be eligible to hold one of the positions set forth in Art. IV §1, a candidate must be an active member of their State Pirate Party, if one exists, or actively involved in Pirate politics if it does not."


 * Motion to wait to vote until states have been informed of the amendments via the SAB list
 * 4 aye, At large abstain


 * Massachusetts proposes that Amanda Johnson of Michigan be appointed Quartermaster until such time as elections are held for permanent  officers.


 * Massachusetts proposes that the PNC choose to interpret Article III, Section 4 to mean that an observer state can apply for probationary status as a stepping stone to a future application for full membership. It is OK if this is a discussion item rather than a motion.


 * Meeting adjourned due to lack of quorum

AOB

 * We should give the bylaws a due date


 * Next meeting: TBA at 9PM EDT
 * Meeting closed: 10 : 25 pm

Log:


 * [21:16]  Zacqary Adam Green, NY
 * [21:17] <@kusanagi> I didn't call it
 * [21:17] <@kusanagi> now i did 916pm edt
 * [21:17] <@kusanagi> roll call go
 * [21:17]  Joseph T. Klein, Wisconsin
 * [21:17]  WELL I WANTED TO SAY MY NAME
 * [21:17] <@kusanagi> <3
 * [21:17]  <3 <3
 * [21:17] Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
 * [21:17]  James Eastman Jr, Michiga
 * [21:17]  yes
 * [21:17]  Michiga
 * [21:17]  Meshuganuh.
 * [21:17]  Bradley Hall, Florida

03*[21:18] * _itspara_ is now known as itspara


 * [21:18] <@kusanagi> We have 4 now..
 * [21:18] <@kusanagi> jarod_, matuck_

02*[21:18] * itspara (~AndChat64@s-85-726-668-82.hsd2.md.comcast.net) Quit (Changing host)

03*[21:18] * itspara (~AndChat64@us.pirate) has joined #pnc


 * [21:19] <@kusanagi> ok
 * [21:19] <@kusanagi> let's start with state reports
 * [21:20] <@kusanagi> Oh, Lindsay-Anne Brunner, FO/Acting Chair
 * [21:20] <@kusanagi> mildbeard, what's MAPP up to?
 * [21:21] Massachusetts doesn't have much new. we had our regular meeting and we're preparing for the upcoming Saturday 9/15 Freedom Rally. I don't have much else new.
 * [21:21] that's it for Mass.
 * [21:21] <@kusanagi> cool beans
 * [21:21] <@kusanagi> washington's out
 * [21:22] <@kusanagi> oregon's excused..
 * [21:22] <@kusanagi> georia's oiut too
 * [21:22] <@kusanagi> so
 * [21:22] <@kusanagi> Rush, what's going on in florida?
 * [21:23]  yes, i am here Jarod GA

01*[21:23]  Jarod what is your last name?


 * [21:23]  Smith
 * [21:23]  I haven't really done much lately, I've been having a few issues to deal with. We should be starting on NSH2 soon. Other than that, we're stagnant. Talked up the party at a party a week ago, that should count for something
 * [21:24] <@kusanagi> sure
 * [21:24]  That sums it up for Florida
 * [21:24] <@kusanagi> okay
 * [21:24] <@kusanagi> jarod_, since you're here now, any update for ga?
 * [21:25]  a friend of mine has interviewed me for a class, it may appear in a local university's newspaper
 * [21:25] <@kusanagi> very cool
 * [21:26] <@kusanagi> that's all?
 * [21:28] <@kusanagi> I guess so.
 * [21:28] <@kusanagi> Zacqary, tell me what's going on in NYPP (lol)
 * [21:28]  I'm meeting with Josh Lafazan tomorrow. He's an 18-year-old who recently got elected to school board.
 * [21:29] <Zacqary> And Mr. Potato Head is coming to visit us in about two weeks to help us do canvassing and stuff.
 * [21:29] <Zacqary> I think that's it, right?
 * [21:29] <@kusanagi> HAHAH
 * [21:29] <Deamon> Question?
 * [21:29] <@kusanagi> YOU DID NOT
 * [21:29] <@kusanagi> sure, go ahead de
 * [21:29] <@kusanagi> Deamon
 * [21:29] <Deamon> Mr. Potato Head?
 * [21:29] <Zacqary> Travis.

02*[21:29] * jarod_ (webchat@68.66.mh.twl) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)


 * [21:29] <Deamon> alrighty
 * [21:29] <@kusanagi> You know, since Idaho.. potatoes..
 * [21:29] <Rush> Really?
 * [21:29] <@kusanagi> yes
 * [21:30] <Bosun> but he only has two eyes

01*[21:30] <Sacha> Right cool makes sense


 * [21:30] <Zacqary> Anyway, we can move on.
 * [21:30] <Deamon> We have a First Mate in charge of Bacon so it's not unprecidented
 * [21:30] <@kusanagi> Bosun, lol
 * [21:30] <@kusanagi> anyway
 * [21:30] <@kusanagi> Bosun, how's WI?
 * [21:31] <Bosun> We lost CA?

01*[21:31] <Sacha> No they just haven't been sending a rep


 * [21:31] <Bosun> ? Oh
 * [21:31] <Bosun> looked like the west coast fell off.
 * [21:31] <@kusanagi> Dunno why..
 * [21:32] <Bosun> I have been working on systems and software upgrades ? setting up for major web page development mode.
 * [21:32] <@kusanagi> ooh, lots of work?
 * [21:33] <Bosun> In Madison, Francis (our intrepid tresurer) rsked arrest at the state capital.
 * [21:33] <@kusanagi> Oh?
 * [21:34] <Bosun> The Gov. Scott Walker hired a new capital cop who is enforcing ant-protest rules.
 * [21:34] <Bosun> You need a permit for more than 4 people or to hold a sign.
 * [21:34] <@kusanagi> ...that is insane.

01*[21:34] <Sacha> What the hell?


 * [21:34] <Bosun> Most ? including ACLU think this is unconstitutional.
 * [21:35] <Bosun> http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2012/sep/12/capitol-protester-says-police-intimidated-him-at-work/
 * [21:35] <Bosun> example from a right wing source
 * [21:35] <@kusanagi> ...that IS unconstitutional
 * [21:36] <Bosun> Yes ? since the WI constitution stars with the bill of rights ? it is against two.
 * [21:36] <@kusanagi> geez

03*[21:37] * jarod (~yaaic@06-41-363-929.pools.spcsdns.net) has joined #pnc


 * [21:37] <Bosun> I have a vid on our facebook page and lost of pointers to articals in tweets as well.

03*[21:38] * jarod_ (webchat@68.66.mh.twl) has joined #pnc


 * [21:38] <Bosun> One guy got a sitation for holding up the freedom of speach portion of the wi constitution.
 * [21:38] <@kusanagi> WOW
 * [21:39] <Bosun> Francis sang with the solidarity singers. 200 showed up after they started ticketing and arrests.
 * [21:39] <@kusanagi> awesome
 * [21:40] <Bosun> So we are still the center of the GOP assalt on liberty.

01*[21:40] <Sacha> Very nice


 * [21:40] <@kusanagi> yeah.. that sucks, but it's good to see you're acting against it
 * [21:41] <@kusanagi> That's all
 * [21:41] <@kusanagi> ?
 * [21:41] <Bosun> I'm working a drupal based framwork for the convention. Been behind on that project but hope to have demo by next tuesday.
 * [21:41] <Bosun> That all
 * [21:41] <Bosun> that is all

01*[21:42] <Sacha> Woot


 * [21:42] <Bosun> cause i'm a sloppy typest so I code slow.
 * [21:42] <Bosun> :-)
 * [21:42] <@kusanagi> it happens
 * [21:42] <@kusanagi> coding nis good though

01*[21:43] <Sacha> Do we have anymore state reports? Jw


 * [21:43] <@kusanagi> moving on to committees
 * [21:43] <Bosun> nis at that.
 * [21:43] <@kusanagi> IT, is CalebLangeslag here?
 * [21:45] <@kusanagi> Looks like he's out
 * [21:45] <@kusanagi> Bylaws, Zacqary
 * [21:46] <Zacqary> Uhhhh...we haven't made very much progress. I've been neglecting the committee, I'm sorry to admit.
 * [21:46] <@kusanagi> Life happens
 * [21:46] <Zacqary> If someone else thinks they can do a better job of running the thing than I can, please step up.
 * [21:46] <@kusanagi> Shoulda did it on Labor Day
 * [21:46] <Zacqary> But otherwise I'll see if I can whip it into shape in the coming weeks.

01*[21:46] <Sacha> I think you are very necessary

01*[21:47] <Sacha> I think that we just need a decision on the committees, clean up the wording and then it'll be good

01*[21:47] <Sacha> no committees officer duties*


 * [21:47] <@kusanagi> yeah
 * [21:48] <@kusanagi> Ok, convention committee, Bosun that's you, right?
 * [21:48] <Bosun> The convention committee: I missed the time this week. If anyone is up for it Saturday at 7CDT is best for me. I'll post it to the wiki. #usahcc

02*[21:48] * jarod_ (webchat@68.66.mh.twl) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)


 * [21:49] <Bosun> Should have somthing substatial to show by then.
 * [21:49] <Deamon> I'll be there
 * [21:49] <Deamon> sober this time
 * [21:49] <Deamon> probably
 * [21:49] <Bosun> I also want to attend IT.
 * [21:50] <@kusanagi> IT.. I don't know if CalebLangeslag holds meeting
 * [21:50] <@kusanagi> s
 * [21:50] <Deamon> I'll keep bugging him

01*[21:50] <Sacha> I think emailing him directly or matuck may be a good idea


 * [21:50] <@kusanagi> But email him or matuck_

01*[21:50] <Sacha> also me and itspara want to do stuff with IT so if you can drag us in too that'd be great ;)


 * [21:50] <Bosun> OK ..
 * [21:51] <Bosun> we have a list ? perhaps we can start using it.
 * [21:51] <@kusanagi> Have either of you too emailed him?
 * [21:51] <@kusanagi> No list that I know of, but I'm also not on IT
 * [21:52] <Bosun> The spead sheet with last weeks agenda had it.
 * [21:52] <Bosun> I think????
 * [21:52] <@kusanagi> no..
 * [21:52] <Bosun> spread ..
 * [21:53] <Bosun> my mistake.
 * [21:53] Yes, USE THE LIST
 * [21:53] <@kusanagi> Maybe, I wasn't on last week.

01*[21:54] -> *bosun* will you get into USPP so that a person from WI can pm you about joining the party?


 * [21:54] <@kusanagi> but we have the sab, we should use it more..
 * [21:54] <@kusanagi> anyway
 * [21:54] <@kusanagi> on to aqgenda items
 * [21:54] <@kusanagi> there's a preposed rewording for CV
 * [21:54] <@kusanagi> 6
 * [21:55] <Bosun> The list homepage: https://lists.riseup.net/www/info/pirate-it
 * [21:56] <@kusanagi> there it is
 * [21:56] <@kusanagi> mildbeard, you had something on CV6
 * [21:56] Yes.

02*[21:57] * jarod (~yaaic@06-41-363-929.pools.spcsdns.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)


 * [21:57] California had an objection to core value 6. They felt that as stated, it would exclude the possibility of supporting affirmative action. They also didn't like explicitly enthroning science as the language does. So we proposed a rewording that should solve this problem.

03*[21:57] * jarod (~yaaic@70.147.pzk.nn) has joined #pnc


 * [21:57] "We are a post-ideological values-based meritocracy. We place all options on the table. We choose a specific approach because the available evidence shows that it is the best way to promote our values. We do not make decisions based merely on tradition, popularity, authority or political expediency."
 * [21:58] <Bosun> works for me.
 * [21:58] Basically it says that we do the best thing because it works, and not because it is the most liberal or conservative, or because we want to get elected.
 * [21:58] <Zacqary> I like it.
 * [21:58] <Bosun> Can we so move?
 * [21:58] Note that it takes a 3/4 majority to amend a core value.
 * [21:59] <Zacqary> Who here has ratified it?
 * [21:59] <Zacqary> NY has. And MA and FL I think, right?
 * [21:59] <@kusanagi> Rush
 * [21:59] Right, but Sacha pointed out at the last meeting that those aren't the only states that can vote.
 * [21:59] <Zacqary> Remind me?
 * [21:59] Sacha?

01*[22:00] <Sacha> The PNC gave the full members 6 months

01*[22:00] <Sacha> in order to ratify

01*[22:00] <Sacha> That is in the Logs


 * [22:00] <Rush> yes?

01*[22:00] <Sacha> but not the constitution because there was no amendment, there was just a vote

01*[22:00] <Sacha> So all full members should be able to vote until the 6 months expires


 * [22:01] <@kusanagi> did you approve the above revision to core value 6?
 * [22:01] <@kusanagi> for Rush

01*[22:01] <Sacha> Not yet

01*[22:01] <Sacha> we haven't made a vote yet


 * [22:01] <Rush> I believe we did
 * [22:02] <@kusanagi> ah
 * [22:02] <@kusanagi> brain wires crossed
 * [22:02] <@kusanagi> i meant the constitution
 * [22:03] Kusanagi, as acting chair, is it your interpretation that any member state can vote on this question? (I want to make sure we aren't seen as passing something without being inclusive.)
 * [22:03] <@kusanagi> yes
 * [22:03] So if anyone has qualms about the proposed rewording, I'd rather talk about them before moving we vote.
 * [22:03] Otherwise I will make a motion.
 * [22:04] <@kusanagi> although I'd rather have more states to vote on it, but that's personal.
 * [22:04] Do you think we should table constitutional amendments until we have a greater number of states present at a future meeting?

01*[22:05] <Sacha> Idk, the same states keep missing


 * [22:05] <Zacqary> I say we vote now and allow more states to submit absentee votes

01*[22:05] <Sacha> That is a good idea


 * [22:05] <Bosun> So moved!
 * [22:05] <@kusanagi> Ok

01*[22:05] <Sacha> how will we go about that?


 * [22:05] <Zacqary> Email.
 * [22:05] <@kusanagi> Post meeting, i'll send something on the sab about it
 * [22:05] I will second the motion. then we have to vote on it.
 * [22:05] <@kusanagi> if your state was out, you have the option to vote
 * [22:05] <Zacqary> This is the motion to amend?
 * [22:05] <Bosun> Yes.
 * [22:06] The motion to allow states to vote retrospectively by absentee.

01*[22:06] <Sacha> cool


 * [22:06] <Bosun> nooo we have a motion on the floor.
 * [22:07] Nobody has moved to amend the constitution yet.
 * [22:07] <Bosun> I will accept a provision to the motion that it must be approved by the absent states.
 * [22:08] <Bosun> The ammendment ? I belive that would be the way to do it.
 * [22:08] I guess I worry about this. If they aren't here, then they won't have participated in the debate and they could vote "no" without understanding. I feel that already happened when California objected to value 6.
 * [22:08] <@kusanagi> yeah..
 * [22:09] <Zacqary> Okay, how about this?
 * [22:09] <Zacqary> We raise the motion on SAB.
 * [22:09] <Zacqary> All votes are due by next week.
 * [22:09] <Rush> k
 * [22:09] Then why don't we do that for agenda items 1 through 3?
 * [22:09] <@kusanagi> i like that much more.

01*[22:09] <Sacha> Yup that workds


 * [22:09] <@kusanagi> Yeah, that would be best.
 * [22:09] <Zacqary> Sounds like a good idea.
 * [22:09] they are all the same type of thing. Amendments to the Constitution.

01*[22:10] <Sacha> Well you did send a warning out on SAB

01*[22:10] <Sacha> so I feel like you warned them to come

01*[22:10] <Sacha> but that is just my opinion


 * [22:10] <@kusanagi> There was no email for this week's meeting though, so they could have forgotten
 * [22:10] <Bosun> Trying to be nice to Robert and his rules. I shall the withdraw my motion.
 * [22:11] <@kusanagi> ok
 * [22:11] So I am going to move that we table agenda items 1 to 3 in order to allow a second announcement on SAB and defintiely vote on them next week. And that we put the text of the agenda items into the SAB message.

01*[22:11] <Sacha> Kusanagi what do you mean


 * [22:11] <Bosun> seconded
 * [22:11] <Zacqary> Will we allow votes to be submitted absentee by email?

01*[22:11] <Sacha> nvm

01*[22:11] <Sacha> Okay Mildbeard


 * [22:11] <@kusanagi> Sacha, there was no reminder email with the agenda this week
 * [22:12] yeh
 * [22:12] <Bosun> It's like a pre-vote discussion and if the list shows concensus we go for it.
 * [22:12] <@kusanagi> yeah

01*[22:12] <Sacha> k


 * [22:12] <Zacqary> I still say we should solicit absentee votes simply so that every state has the opportunity to formally vote on it.
 * [22:13] <Zacqary> Since it's an amendment and all.
 * [22:13] <Bosun> They can absentee on the list, so we all see who is for or against.
 * [22:14] Zacqary, if someone has a serious objection to any of this then we should look at it and make reasonable changes to address their issue if appropriate.
 * [22:14] <@kusanagi> and the meetings are logged.
 * [22:14] <@kusanagi> so one could peruse that
 * [22:14] Unless they are a troll, in which case you will have to hold me back from flaming them.
 * [22:14] <@kusanagi> Haha
 * [22:14] <Bosun> Could not make it more open unless we went to their house a read it to them
 * [22:15] <Deamon> That'sa good idea
 * [22:15] <Zacqary> All right. So what are we motioninginging?
 * [22:15] Can we vote on the motion to table items 1,2,3?
 * [22:15] <Bosun> It is motioned to tablee and discuss on list.
 * [22:16] <Zacqary> Let's vote then?
 * [22:16] <Bosun> chair?
 * [22:16] <@kusanagi> sure
 * [22:16] <Zacqary> Aye
 * [22:16] <Bosun> aye
 * [22:16] aye
 * [22:16] <Deamon> abstain
 * [22:16] <@kusanagi> Rush, jarod
 * [22:17] <Rush> AYE!
 * [22:17] <Rush> what'd I vote on? jk
 * [22:17] <@kusanagi> heh
 * [22:17] <@kusanagi> jarod, last call.

01*[22:17] <Sacha> 4 aye, at large abstains


 * [22:18] <@kusanagi> motion passes
 * [22:18] Abstait
 * [22:18] <@kusanagi> ok
 * [22:19] <@kusanagi> Motion still passes
 * [22:19] <@kusanagi> so that will go to the sab
 * [22:19] <Zacqary> Moving on, item 4?
 * [22:19] <@kusanagi> yes
 * [22:19] <@kusanagi> As far as I know, Amanda is in fact acting quatermaster
 * [22:19] "Massachusetts proposes that Amanda Johnson of Michigan be appointed Quartermaster until such time as elections are held for permanent  officers. "
 * [22:20] She says there was never anything official, and Travis objected to giving her the @.
 * [22:20] <Bosun> So moved.
 * [22:20] <Rush> Guys, I need to leave.

02*[22:20] * Rush (4c6ad209@khueo3.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)


 * [22:20] <Bosun> Does that break quarum?
 * [22:21] <@kusanagi> yes it does

01*[22:21] <Sacha> Yup

01*[22:21] <Sacha> is Jarod in?


 * [22:21] <Bosun> crap.

01*[22:21] <Sacha> JAROD WE NEED U


 * [22:21] <@kusanagi> oh right, 4
 * [22:22] <Deamon> way to drunk to watch rationally
 * [22:22] <Deamon> night guys
 * [22:22] ...or we could just adjourn and pick this up when we have more participation.

02*[22:22] * Deamon (~Deamon@v-72-87-86-19.hsd8.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC)


 * [22:22] <@kusanagi> yeah, that would be the best option
 * [22:23] <@kusanagi> anyone want to make a motion?
 * [22:23] <Zacqary> Motion to adjourn?
 * [22:23] second
 * [22:23] <Zacqary> Aye
 * [22:23] aye
 * [22:24] <Bosun> aye ? thou I think lack of quarum makes is automagic

01*[22:24] <Sacha> Do we even have enough to adjourn

01*[22:24] <Sacha> I think the captain just says adjourned >.>


 * [22:24] <@kusanagi> Well, we still technically have 4
 * [22:24] Having issues here sorry
 * [22:24] it's more dignified if we vote.
 * [22:24] <Zacqary> We're pirates. Nothing's dignified.
 * [22:24] <@kusanagi> jarod, we're voting to adjourn
 * [22:25] Aye
 * [22:25] Sorry, client issues... My connection err
 * [22:25] <@kusanagi> Meeting adjourned. Next meeting will be sept 19th at 9pm edt. have a good night guys.

01*[22:25] <Sacha> Zacqary Oh the things you do not know


 * [22:25] <Zacqary> Niiiight.